The Gosselins are one of reality TV’s most controversial families, and as their eight kids grow up, they’re still very much in the public eye. From twins Madelyn and Cara in 2000 to sextuplets Aaden, Collin, Joel, Alexis, Hannah, and Leah in 2004, Jon and Kate sure had their parenting work cut out for them on TV and off.

Over time, viewers of the show Jon & Kate Plus 8 got to see Kate’s controlling personality emerge, and the couple’s marriage fall apart. After their separation, Jon was linked to the couple’s former nanny, who was 22 at the time. Following that came claims that Jon cheated during the marriage, although he claimed he didn’t socialize with other women until after the divorce proceedings began. Then again, the court order for $22,000 in child support each month probably didn’t help.

Following the split, Kate continued with the TLC show Kate Plus 8, while Jon struggled to remain employed along with attempting to maintain a relationship with all eight of the kids. Both parents have their challenges, especially as all eight kids became teens. Even after the cameras stop rolling, there’s plenty to learn about how the Gosselins treat their offspring.

15 Getting Mouthy

It’s hard to discern exactly what happened here, and supporters of Kate will obviously say it’s a photo taken at an inopportune time. Critics, however, particularly ones who are aware of Jon’s abuse allegations against Kate, would probably suggest that Kate’s smacking her son’s mouth as punishment. Then again, another shot shows a little more clearly that Kate was holding her hand over his mouth. While that’s still not optimal, it’s better than her slapping her little boy in the mouth. The look on her face doesn’t help, though, although we’re used to seeing Kate with her angry mom face on. We just wish it wasn’t her only face ninety-five percent of the time. We understand that raising eight kids is stressful, but there’s no reason to be a grinch all the time.

14 Hands-Off Mom

In this clip from a beach vacation Kate took solo with her eight kids, her three younger girls were bickering over who was going to sleep where. While Kate normally separates one of the girls who tends to wake at night, Alexis, Leah, and Hannah couldn’t agree on who would sleep on the bunk beds and who would sleep elsewhere.

At first, Kate tried to intervene, but the girls continued to talk over her and snap at each other, arguing over who should make the appropriate sacrifice. Finally, one of the girls reaches to close the door, and rather than continue to hassle with them, Kate walks away and tells them to work it out themselves and let her know when they’ve reached a resolution. Good work Kate- every mom dreams of the day that this will actually work.

13 Mean Mom Makes Welts

In court documents following Jon and Kate’s split, and the ugly divorce that followed, Jon claimed that Kate would kit the kids so hard with a wooden spoon that they would have welts afterward. The documents, as reported by She Knows, stated that then-five-year-old Leah had a red welt on her bottom when Jon had visitation and was giving her a bath.

Apparently Kate’s reaction to Leah biting Hannah was to hit her with a spoon, but that’s not the only complaint Jon had against Kate’s parenting at the time. He also stated that she didn’t dress the kids appropriately for the weather, not putting warm coats on them in the winter, and that babysitters Kate hired locked the children in their rooms at night. The truth never came out about the allegations, so it’s hard to say whether Kate is really the evil mom that Jon suggested she was.

12 Globe Trotting Family

While some of Kate’s excursions with the kids may be staged or altered for the benefit of her reality TV appearances, she truly does take the kids to some amazing places. The kids have been to Australia and New Zealand, plus different destinations in the states, along with Alaska. Typical kids (who aren’t on TV) don’t often get the chance to travel extensively, especially in families with eight kids!

The kids are lucky in this way, but then again, Kate’s on her own with them and their vacations don’t always go as flawlessly as one would hope. Still, as a veteran single mom, Kate should know that it’s not as easy as it seems to take eight kids on vacation. Now that the kids are older, it might be easier to manage logistics, but the sibling bickering (not to mention the massive packing) probably hasn’t slowed down any.

11 Safety First Dad

This throwback to when the sextuplets were small enough to still need car seats is a heartwarming reminder that the overwhelmed parents did do a number of things “right” when their kids were little. One of those being paying attention to car seat safety! It definitely would have been easier to put all the kids in booster seats as soon as they could sort of fit, but we’re glad Kate and Jon didn’t go the way of MTV’s tragic parenting examples with their car seat usage.

It also impresses us that Jon is climbing in the van to check the kids’ straps, when they might be old enough here to buckle themselves, if not unbuckle easily. Every time we saw Jon or Kate doing something themselves, rather than relying on staff or nannies, that was a moment for the good parenting scrapbook.

10 Sending The Kids Packing

Here’s another throwback to when the sextuplets were little and it was easier for Jon to carry their stuff himself rather than making each kid put their backpack on. It’s moments like this we appreciate the overwhelming amount of stuff you’d need for eight kids, even when they’re kindergarteners. Carting all the kids around was probably tough enough, but we’re sure taking over the responsibility for their backpacks at least ensured that they made it home.

Jon was the bad guy so often when Kate and he first separated, so it’s nice to look back on photos of him doing normal dad stuff where the kids seem content to be with him. Even if the cheating allegations are all true, he still tried to step up and be a dad to the kids when the dust settled.

9 Saved From A Fall

One of the boys got into a scuffle with a concrete path, and dad was right there to scoop him up. This photo could almost be taken out of context and look like the sextuplet was having a tempter tantrum, but the preceding pics showed him falling down on the concrete, then crying and looking around for someone to rescue him. Dad came to his aid, and led him away by the hand.

It's not often we see Jon with the kids anymore at all, so it’s hard to tell how he’d react to their everyday needs and disappointments. At the same time, you get a sense of melancholy seeing the photos of the kids in their younger years. Now teens, they likely don’t need their dad (or mom) as much as they used to.

8 Shopping Buddies

So Jon and Kate are both pretty normal after all- they take the kids out to Starbucks, they go shopping, they even play outside with the kids in their yards. Jon might not be perfect, but at least he can manage to pick up a drink and some necessities for the kids while they’re in his care. Then again, it’s probably easier for him not having all eight at one time while trying to run errands, the way it always seems to end up for Kate.

As the kids get older there are less photos of them circulating, but we do see Kate shopping from time to time and doing the maternal thing. Jon doesn’t get the spotlight much, though, despite the fact that he wasn’t too terrible of a dad in the public eye after the split from Kate.

7 Happy Birthday To Five

For the sextuplets’ most recent birthday- the big 13- one of the children was noticeably absent. Cameras rolled as Aaden, Joel, Alexis, Hannah, and Leah blew out the candles on two separate cakes (one for girls, one for boys). But brother Collin wasn’t there. Kate later gave an interview to People magazine, explaining that Collin’s absence was tied to his attending a live-in program to address his “special needs.”

Dad Jon has told the media that he hasn’t seen son Collin in about two years, and this most recent move probably has something to do with it. Kate is quick to address criticism about sending Collin away, but she also maintains that it’s the best place for Collin to learn what he needs to learn, without defining exactly what his “special needs” may be.

6 First Day Of School Drop Off

Even when they were still married and living together, Jon and Kate often seemed distracted and irritated with one another. If this photo is any indication, even when they were in front of the kids, they still had their sparring moments. But one heartwarming clue to how they parent is the fact that both mom and dad made a point of taking the kids to their first day of school.

As the kids got older, it probably wasn’t as big of a deal, but when they were young, documenting those first days of school outside of the reality TV cameras was important to Jon and Kate. The kids look a little underwhelmed, but then again, they’re quite young, so we don’t expect them to appreciate mom and dad’s commitment to school drop off.

5 Holiday Humph

When the sextuplets were in first grade, Radar Online reported that Jon and Kate were getting angry calls from the kids’ schoolmates’ parents. The reason? The six little ones apparently burst other kids’ Santa bubble, telling them that Santa is a farce and that their parents were lying to them.

This little tidbit, if it was true, sheds some light on Jon and Kate’s parenting tactics. For many parents, keeping Santa alive is a huge part of keeping the magic in kids’ childhoods. But at the same time, the couple’s older daughters, Mady and Cara, no doubt figured out that Santa was a lie first. So is it really that terrible to admit to the younger ones that there’s no Santa, if they ask directly? We’ll let you be the judge of that.

4 Prolific TV Appearances

Most parents wouldn’t welcome reality TV cameras into their homes for months or years at a time, but Jon and Kate did just that. Even after their divorce, when Jon wanted the TLC show cut off, Kate continued on solo. In addition to that, her Wikipedia page also notes multiple specials reporting on the sextuplets and twins, plus family appearances on Celebrity Wife Swap and countless talk shows.

Kate even brought twin teens Mady and Cara on TV to talk about their estranged relationship with dad Jon, which is way more than most teens want to share with the world. Still, the kids are used to being photographed and recorded during their daily lives, so maybe this isn’t too far out of the norm for the girls, or their younger siblings.

3 Father’s Day Flop

This pic of Jon on an undated Father’s Day when the kids were younger doesn’t immediately impress. Although Jon had all the kids to himself, he didn’t seem too involved at first glance. He’s got his Bluetooth headset in, and he seems to be directing the action from his lawn chair. But maybe looks are deceiving- he’s at least outside with all the kids, and they seem to be frolicking in a water feature while he looks on.

At best, this is a Father’s Day that the kids get to spend with their dad, at worst, it’s some lazy (or relaxed) parenting. However you look at it, it’s way better than what Jon says he currently gets as far as visitation. As the twins explained on a recent talk show appearance, they don’t see dad Jon much anymore, and only four of the sextuplets regularly choose to visit him.

2 Things Start Turning Around

The same day that Jon was spotted relaxing in his lawn chair wearing his Bluetooth headset while the kids played, he was later photographed hugging the kids and sharing a sweet smooch with daughter Leah. As much as the media likes to villainize Jon, he does have his redeeming moments. The positives here are that he’s on his own with the kids, with no nannies, babysitters, or girlfriends in sight, so that’s a plus in his favor.

We kind of miss seeing Jon like this now that the kids are older and apparently avoid him, if Mady and Cara’s recent talk-show comments are to be believed. The girls claim that their dad doesn’t really know them anymore, and wish he’d stop commenting on their lives to the media. Then again, maybe all teens wish their dads would back off a little.

1 Picnic For Nine

Kate has had her positive mom moments, too, mostly away from the reality TV camera crew. As many times as Kate has been recorded making angry faces and going on tirades in front of (or at) the kids, here’s a throwback to when she would get down on the floor with them and have a little picnic in the park.

Kate’s never really been a hands-on mom, so this was a sweet moment that the paparazzi apparently caught. Then again, maybe the whole thing was staged, or part of Kate’s reality show, as many online critics have recently suggested. People think that Kate and her network routinely stage parts of the show- which was proven true when footage aired of Collin recently, except that he’s currently at a residential facility for “special needs” care.

Sources: People, Radar Online, She Knows, Wikipedia