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Derp Due January 10; 1 child; Camp Lejeune, NC, United States 11613 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" There is no need for it. They are practically paid the same when you actually account for their differences. It's already illegal to pay a woman less for doing the EXACT same job as a man."

But it still happens all the time. That's where this legislation would have come in. It would've made it harder for employers to discriminate against women because of gender.



Laws get revised all of the time. This is an area that needs serious work. Like I said, if there are as many independent studies out there that show a gender gap in every state in the U.S. (and there are plenty), I'm going to guess there's still an issue there and besides, why even vote against more legislation for equality to begin with?

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting ~Ice Princess~:" Here's one of my textbooks for example: http://books.google.com/books?id=pHce7ySuyscC&pg=PA217&lpg=P ... [snip!] ... get away with paying him more...even though the jobs are exactly the same, their education and experience are the same, etc."


Then it seems like employers would be begging women to come work for them...if they can pay them less for the exact same work, right?

......... nowhere, NW, United States 25972 posts
5th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting SpaceCowgirl:</b>" Then it seems like employers would be begging women to come work for them...if they can pay them less for the exact same work, right?"</blockquote>




I mean that would make sense, but we do still live in a sexist, patriarchial society.

Derp Due January 10; 1 child; Camp Lejeune, NC, United States 11613 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Please explain why the evil greedy capitalists haven't picked up on the fact that they can pay a woman ... [snip!] ... could cut down their payroll expenses by 25% if they just hire women, right? Tell me why the greedy capitalists don't do that?"

Calm down. I never called anyone an "evil, greedy capitalist." You're putting words in my mouth. This is the reason why debates end up being so terrible. People get way too heated just because someone has a differing opinion. If you can be respectful of mine I'll be respectful of yours and I will most certainly not put words in your mouth.




Anyway, I personally believe it's because a majority of men truly feel that women are inferior and it shows in our government (which happens to be run by mostly men). I'm not one who buys into conspiracy theories and I certainly don't believe there's some mass group of men trying to put women down but I definitely believe sexism is still alive and well and it allows for men to discriminate against women in certain ways (thanks in part to weak legislation). First of all they won't hire all women because, well, that would mean they're hiring all women. Secondly they wouldn't hire all women because it would be pretty darn obvious that they're trying to pay less in the long run. It would be as obvious as if a massive company hired a bunch of immigrants for less pay. That draws way too much attention.

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting Raptor Jesus (TTC):" Calm down. I never called anyone an "evil, greedy capitalist." You're putting words in my mouth. This ... [snip!] ... It would be as obvious as if a massive company hired a bunch of immigrants for less pay. That draws way too much attention."


I'm not upset and I didn't say you called them evil greedy capitalists.



But that seems to be the consensus, if we need the government to tell them how to behave like moral human beings, right?



Anyway, I'm reading up on the whole Fair Pay thing. Sounds like the democrats were just trying to pander to women by putting more legislation up that was meaningless because there was already a supreme court decision in place. The only thing it would have done would have been to help lawyers because there would have been more suits filed against employers.

Derp Due January 10; 1 child; Camp Lejeune, NC, United States 11613 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" I'm not upset and I didn't say you called them evil greedy capitalists. But that seems to be the consensus, ... [snip!] ... only thing it would have done would have been to help lawyers because there would have been more suits filed against employers."

If you say so. Like I said several times before, I'll go with Cornell University and other reputable sources when it comes to whether or not this is made up nonsense and whether or not legislation is needed to curb rampant sexism that most certainly still exists in our nation.

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting Raptor Jesus (TTC):" If you say so. Like I said several times before, I'll go with Cornell University and other reputable ... [snip!] ... up nonsense and whether or not legislation is needed to curb rampant sexism that most certainly still exists in our nation. "


And I posted a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research that says the gap disappears when you account for education, hours worked, experience, etc.



*Shrug*

Derp Due January 10; 1 child; Camp Lejeune, NC, United States 11613 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" And I posted a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research that says the gap disappears when you account for education, hours worked, experience, etc. *Shrug*"

That's one study versus countless others. I really don't know how anyone could argue that there isn't rampant sexism in many industries. If you haven't experienced it in the workplace before then consider yourself blessed. I know I have and so have many of my female peers.



Like I said before, I'm not on some trip about men being these evil monsters and I certainly don't identify myself as a feminist but to me (and most people I know) it's rather obvious that there is a gender gap in many areas. In my mind any legislation that helps rebuke this phenomenon is good and if I were in Congress I would never vote against that kind of bill. I don't understand how anyone could vote against something like this but there are just some things I'll never understand.

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting Raptor Jesus:" That's one study versus countless others. I really don't know how anyone could argue that there isn't ... [snip!] ... I don't understand how anyone could vote against something like this but there are just some things I'll never understand."


Oh, I didn't realize it was quantity that we were going for.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28246928/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32859540_1_gender-wage-women-staffers-higher-paying-fields



http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/08/07/is-gender-pay-gap-a-myth/



http://www.iwf.org/blog/2432979/Gender-Wage-Gap-Is-Feminist-Fiction



http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle.htm?id=8380#.UJiaoIYQMpc



http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-s-gender-pay-gap-is-myth-it-s-just-not-true-experts-say

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jborowski/the-myth-of-the-gender-wage-gap



http://www.businessinsider.com/actually-the-gender-pay-gap-is-just-a-myth-2011-3?op=1

......... nowhere, NW, United States 25972 posts
5th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting SpaceCowgirl:</b>" And I posted a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research that says the gap disappears when you account for education, hours worked, experience, etc. *Shrug*"</blockquote>




It's so hard to know what to believe anymore. The book I posted cites the Bureau of Labor Statistics for example.

khigh 1 child; Fort Sill, Oklahoma 8101 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Oh, I didn't realize it was quantity that we were going for. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1 ... [snip!] ... http://www.businessinsider.com/actually-the-gender-pay-gap-is-just-a-myth-2011-3?op=1"


All those links and she's going to say "oh nooooo. You posted a link to freedomworks. They are a Glenn Beck TEA Party group!!!"

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12

On a side note, Obama pays women on his staff $11,000 less than he pays the men.



http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/101812-629933-obama-white-house-pays-women-less.htm

Derp Due January 10; 1 child; Camp Lejeune, NC, United States 11613 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting khigh:" All those links and she's going to say "oh nooooo. You posted a link to freedomworks. They are a Glenn Beck TEA Party group!!!""

Nope.



I don't know why so many people here are pegging me to be some kind of leftist nut just because I don't understand people not supporting legislation for fair pay. I must say it's amusing though



Space Cowgirl, we can keep going back and forth over this but we're both clearly rooted in our opinions on the matter. I can go dig up even more studies and links and we can go on and on but quite frankly it's a waste of time. I'm just not interested, especially if you're going to be so crass about it all. I'm also not a fan of sarcasm when it's used like this.There's nothing more rewarding than an intelligent discussion with someone you disagree with as it's a great way to expand your mind but unfortunately that almost never happens because people insist on being intense to a fault. I get that I'm on Baby Gaga and therefore shouldn't expect much but I still try to avoid heated nonsense for the most part.



My initial intent here was to simply state that I don't understand how anyone could support someone who votes against gender equality and that point still stands despite multiple pages of debating back and forth. That's the last thing I'm going to say about any of this.



The end.

......... nowhere, NW, United States 25972 posts
5th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting khigh:</b>" All those links and she's going to say "oh nooooo. You posted a link to freedomworks. They are a Glenn Beck TEA Party group!!!""</blockquote>




To be fair though, generally anything ending in .org is not credible. If you were to use a cite like that on a school paper, you could get a zero. Not saying they're wrong because I honestly don't know what to believe anymore...

SpaceCowgirl Due December 21; 3 kids; Oregon 20240 posts
5th Nov '12
Quoting Raptor Jesus:" Nope. I don't know why so many people here are pegging me to be some kind of leftist nut just because ... [snip!] ... stands despite multiple pages of debating back and forth. That's the last thing I'm going to say about any of this. The end."


Notice that nobody is arguing that women shouldn't get paid the same as men.



My issue is with democrats using a mythological Fair Pay Fairy to try and garner support from women when it's really not an issue. Just playing politics. Plus, knowing Washington, I'm willing to bet there was millions of dollars in pork attached to that fair pay act.