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user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting The Doctor:</b>" Acknowledging that we're not perfect, though, does not mean we are not happy in our imperfections. ... [snip!] ... Seems like you think you can be happy with your "imperfections", but someone who has different "imperfections" can't be happy?"</blockquote>




I agree! I am very happy inspite of my many imperfections. I just do not feel true or complete happiness can be maintained in a relationship that is not wholly monogamous. And I believe this because I believe that we are ALL jealousy creatures. We don't have to be jealous monsters, but I really don't think jealousy is something that can be removed from the human condition.

user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

To me it's complacency vs true happiness...



But then, who is to say which is better?

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Safka9973:" <blockquote><b>Quoting The Doctor:</b>" Acknowledging that we're not perfect, though, ... [snip!] ... don't have to be jealous monsters, but I really don't think jealousy is something that can be removed from the human condition."



You disregarded my question, though.



Because you "deal with" your imperfections differently, and you are happy.... how can you possibly believe that someone "deals with" theirs differently is inherently unhappy?



That's like saying my favorite flavor is chocolate. And that's fine if other people say they like vanilla better, but I don't, and I know that chocolate is actually their favorite. My brain is fried, that is not a good example.



Do you think that because people are animals that we're unhappy if we repress those instincts, to kill, or to hurt someone else when we're angry?

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Safka9973:" To me it's complacency vs true happiness... But then, who is to say which is better?"


Happiness is subjective, though. And adding "true" onto that is just piling more judgement onto it, saying that your happiness is true, while someone else's happiness-- well, they must just be lying.



Just like art.



What you love, someone else will hate. And vice versa.

user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting The Doctor:</b>" You disregarded my question, though. Because you "deal with" your imperfections differently, and ... [snip!] ... because people are animals that we're unhappy if we repress those instincts, to kill, or to hurt someone else when we're angry?"</blockquote>




Oh but I did answer. I think in this situation, they cannot be truly happy.

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Safka9973:" <blockquote><b>Quoting The Doctor:</b>" You disregarded my question, though. Because ... [snip!] ... else when we're angry?"</blockquote> Oh but I did answer. I think in this situation, they cannot be truly happy."


Why? How can you possibly know that?



It's insulting to believe that you know better than they do-- they're living their life. You are not.

Pey and Trista's mommy 2 kids; 2 angel babies; Houston, Texas 42502 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting The Doctor:" Happiness is subjective, though. And adding "true" onto that is just piling more judgement onto it, ... [snip!] ... else's happiness-- well, they must just be lying. Just like art. What you love, someone else will hate. And vice versa."


Not to mention if they are oblivious there even MIGHT be a problem they could very well be "Truly" happy.

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Mel & a girl named Pey:" Not to mention if they are oblivious there even MIGHT be a problem they could very well be "Truly" happy."


I would like to know what happiness is.



I have many other questions.



What if true happiness is always giving into our baser instincts? And how the hell can anyone know or define what happiness is for anyone else? This baffles me.

Pey and Trista's mommy 2 kids; 2 angel babies; Houston, Texas 42502 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting The Doctor:" I would like to know what happiness is. I have many other questions. What if true happiness is always ... [snip!] ... giving into our baser instincts? And how the hell can anyone know or define what happiness is for anyone else? This baffles me."


Personally I think it's being ok with yourself and your life (at the moment) despite all the flaws...if every flaw makes us depressed or angry or sad no one would TRULY be happy.

_______Nope_________ 23772 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Safka9973:" <blockquote><b>Quoting The Doctor:</b>" Acknowledging that we're not perfect, though, ... [snip!] ... don't have to be jealous monsters, but I really don't think jealousy is something that can be removed from the human condition."


Why though? Because you deny your jealous tendencies? But lust is an instinct as well, and you expect people to control that instinct. Why then can a person controlling lust be happy, but someone controlling jealousy can't be?



Also, try to remember that what YOU find happiness in, is not the same as what other people find it in. I find happiness in my marriage. I would not be happy as a single career woman. This does not mean OTHERS can't find happiness that is equal to my own doing that.



You seem very judgmental really, even though you claim not to be. You say that there is no way a person living a life different then yours could possibly be happy. If they think they're happy, they are really just complacent. Could the same not be said about you? That you aren't REALLY happy, you're just complacent in a relationship with a single man. If you were more evolved you could seperate sex and emotions enough to be able to have sex with other people and still have a wonderful central relationship with your husband. The fact that you are unable to do this or to even try says that you are simply complacent with the situation you're in.



That is an attempt to assume one is chosen because it's all a person can get. They are in an open relationship because they can't do any better, so they're complacent with how things are. You seem unable to realize that some people have tried monogamous and are happier in an open relationship. Are they just not really sure what "true" happiness is? Should they settle for what makes them less happy because it's "normal" and in your opinion will actually make them happier (even if to them it makes them less happy?)(

user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting she nan igans:</b>" Why though? Because you deny your jealous tendencies? But lust is an instinct as well, and you expect ... [snip!] ... happy because it's "normal" and in your opinion will actually make them happier (even if to them it makes them less happy?)("</blockquote>




This is all a very good argument.
However, my beliefs on this matter are unwavering. I don't think jealousy is something that can be completely nonexistent in our lives. We face it in a variety of relationships. To claim it does not exist, seems quite ridiculous to me. In a romantic relationship where there is a much stronger degree of possesiveness, to me it seem inherently obvious thy jealousy would play an even stronger role. We don't have to be slaves to our jealousy, but to feel a degree of it is to be human!



Thus, people in open relationships who claim not to have issues with jealousy- I am unable to believe that they are truly in touch with themselves an their emotions, and I that rather they are in a state of denial- which can bring complacency.



Everyone has felt jealousy at some point on their lives. Anyone who claims they have not is not being honest with themselves. People can live many different walks of life and find happiness, but living in a non monogamous relationship and not succumbing to jealousy is not something I believe is in concordance with human nature.

user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

*Unless you have the inability to form emotional attachments
Kind of like Dexter on the first couple of seasons. But this is again, some type of disorder.



I have got to peace out. DH and I are out to lunch and then errands.



Great topic!

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12
Quoting Safka9973:" <blockquote><b>Quoting she nan igans:</b>" Why though? Because you deny your jealous ... [snip!] ... in a non monogamous relationship and not succumbing to jealousy is not something I believe is in concordance with human nature."


Our entire, daily lives are not in accordance with human nature.



We're not supposed to wear shoes, brush our hair, ingest man made chemicals.... but we do it on a daily basis. AND convince ourselves it's to keep us happy!

Nathan Young 2 kids; Syracuse, New York 57578 posts
30th Nov '12

There is also a huge difference between feeling slightly jealous, which everyone does, whether it's because of a love relationship, or because someone has a million dollars that you don't have. Yes, you can be jealous.



That does not mean the jealousy has to take over your life, or make you unhappy.

user banned Des Moines, Iowa 1848 posts
30th Nov '12

Ps-
Doctor and Shenanigans
You two have to be my absolute favs on here regardless of differences in opinion. Just parentanked, hope you don't mind :)