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eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
3rd Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" It's different here because Canada and the USA would never allow such things to happen. They would step ... [snip!] ... says they want fairness and equality, well it is equel for rules to apply to everyone regardless of race, gender or religion."</blockquote>




Lol what are you talking about? Women are abused every day in the USA and canada. All over the world.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
3rd Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" I'm not preaching to her. I could careless what she chooses to follow but I feel from reading it that ... [snip!] ... is popular, seem to see it in a very different way then those who convert and read different/updated versions of the qur'an."</blockquote>




Lol, WHERE did i say that muslim women who were raised muslim don't know as much as i do because I converted? Do not put words in my mouth. The issues that you are speaking of are CULTURAL. A lot of muslims who have grown up as muslims do not study their religiom because they have never been told to. Because i converted I obviously studied first, otherwise i would not have become a muslim. I also do not have cultural baggage, so I am able to see the difference. Seriously you are so ignorant it is not even funny. There is no 'revised' qur'an and I did not make up the translations lol. Everything I wrote is already here- you can't go lie to people who already read what I wrote. Lol I, unlike you, was actually able to give the translator's name of what I posted.

Layla-and-Faith 2 kids; Nova Scotia 656 posts
4th Feb '13

Can you read in their language because if not, I am 100 percent sure that you are NOT reading the orginal qur'an, you are reading a translated version.



You are the one being irrogant.. did you not just say that I shouldn't believe the word of a true muslim who actually read and understands the real qur'an? The girl in the book has read the qur'an in it's native language, exactly as it is meant to be read/heard. Her version is clearly not the same as your version.. so are you telling me that your translated softened version is the real one and this other woman is lying? because that is pretty much what you are saying.



From hearing real life stories from muslims who actually can read and understand the orginal qur'an, I get a much different view then your sugar coated version.



I'm not judging you, I'm just saying that you can't judge me for believing the word of muslims, who know how to read the real qu'ran, who has lived through a life surrounded by people who following the real qu'ran, over what you say.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" Can you read in their language because if not, I am 100 percent sure that you are NOT reading the orginal ... [snip!] ... to read the real qu'ran, who has lived through a life surrounded by people who following the real qu'ran, over what you say."</blockquote>



The life of real muslims? Lol, sweety I became muslim when I was 12 years old and have lived in a muslim house hold since then. Yes, I do read arabic, and yes I can read the qur'an. However the arabic that the qur'an is in and what the average arab speaks is completely different. The qur'an is in Fus'ha and arabs speak their own slang version (whether it's the egyptian style, philistini, saudi etc) they all change words and say different things. If you really understood this you would not have said there are so many different versions of the qur'an. You can't just pick up the qur'an and just say 'oh this is what it means and is telling us to do'. There is so much to it, it is extremely indepth, you HAVE to go a scholar's works and see what they have explained it means, such as Ibn Katheer for example.




But, you read an autobiographical book and have some muslim friends, so I guess you just know it all lmbo.

user banned Lesbos, Greece 95211 posts
4th Feb '13
Quoting Layla-and-Faith:" She is from Iraq but she IS a muslim. What is your answer to why a woman must cover up and why is she ... [snip!] ... I'm sure you know from reading it. So where are you reading your information at? I would love to read it from a different view."


Female circumcision is not rooted in Islam. It's a cultural thing and Christian infants in the areas it is practiced in are also put through it. WTF.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" Can you read in their language because if not, I am 100 percent sure that you are NOT reading the orginal ... [snip!] ... to read the real qu'ran, who has lived through a life surrounded by people who following the real qu'ran, over what you say."</blockquote>




And with all these muslim friends of yours, I wonder if you have told them how much you hate what THEY believe in?

user banned Lesbos, Greece 95211 posts
4th Feb '13
Quoting Layla-and-Faith:" Please explain these to me then.. -"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior ... [snip!] ... intercourse with them whence God enjoined you....'" Quran 2:222, (why are they unclean? for something they cannot control?)"


There's also a law in Leviticus stating that menstruating women are unclean and should not be touched.



Your point?

user banned Lesbos, Greece 95211 posts
4th Feb '13

You sure do mix up Islam and culture. The two are not the same thing. While cultural practices can be rooted in religion, they can also be rooted in pre-religion customs.



That would be like saying that every boy circumcised in Queens has it done because he's Jewish which completely disregards the fact that not every boy born in Queens is Jewish and not every circumcision is the result of a bris.

Layla-and-Faith 2 kids; Nova Scotia 656 posts
4th Feb '13

No, that is not what I am saying at all.
She said that what I had first stated was wrong and asked where I got that from.. I simply said it was from the book. She then pretty much said that the muslim girl was lying about what the qur'an said. I don't know many muslims, I will admit that but the ones I do know who have actually read the qur'an in it's native language seem to have a much different translation of it then what the english versions say. You should read the book and then decide if you still think the woman is lying about what she read in the qur'an.



Everything she has been through was all in the name of Allah and based on things found in the orginal qur'an not the translated versions we read.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" No, that is not what I am saying at all. She said that what I had first stated was wrong and asked where ... [snip!] ... been through was all in the name of Allah and based on things found in the orginal qur'an not the translated versions we read."</blockquote>




I never said your friend lied, I said she is wrong. Like I said any person off the street caanot just translate the qur'an. You must be highly, highly skilled AND have indepth knowledge of Islam. The translations I posted are from the most famous and accurate translation of the meaning, The Noble Qur'an, by Hilali and Khan. If you are so 'interested' in the life style why are acting like your fingers in your ears and following a ridiculous book and a friend? When you want to truly learn about something you go to the *correct* sources, and if you cannot read them in their language you find the text with the most authentic translations, and the rightly guided scholars who can explain it. This way you can become more educated in the subject and you might even be able to teach your friend a thing or two.

Layla-and-Faith 2 kids; Nova Scotia 656 posts
4th Feb '13
Quoting eKnuckles:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" No, that is not what I am saying at all. ... [snip!] ... it. This way you can become more educated in the subject and you might even be able to teach your friend a thing or two."


But how can you say that the translated version you are reading is actually correct and the version it's it's native langauge is incorrect. To me, it sounds like you think the english version is right and the native version is wrong. It's not a silly book, it was VERY brave of her to write the book for us all to see what "some" of these mulim women go through. You can say it's culteral and maybe it is, but it's kind of ironic that the muslims who read the orginal qur'an in it's native language interept the messages much different then you do from reading it in English.



You should consider reading the book.. it's interesting and worth our time.



I'm not judging the men and women who wish to follow the qur'an (in which ever version they choose). I do feel bad that the women are treated so poorly due to messages they read in the qur'an but it is their choice if they wish to follow it. You can't say it's cultural beliefs, when they are actually doing these things based of what they think Allah had written in the orginal qur'an. They do the things they do because of what they read.. clearly, you are not reading the same thing as them or you are understanding differently then they are.



Please, consider reading the book. And no I am not preaching my religion on you (I haven't even disclosed my religion to you). But the book shows what message the muslims who can read the orginal get from reading it.. it's so much different then what you are saying. It's very interesting.. I'm only on my first book written by a born and raised muslim, I plan to read more. My father's ex girlfriend said her husband had awful beliefs towards woman but it was all in the name of allah and what he read in qur'an.



I am interested in why the English seem to read it differently then those who can read it in it's native laugauge.. but I may never get the answers to that.



Layla-and-Faith 2 kids; Nova Scotia 656 posts
4th Feb '13

And please understand that I am not trying to be rude or mean. I am actually very interested and curious. What I wonder is why the messages you follow are so much different then how the people who read it in it's native language understand it.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" But how can you say that the translated version you are reading is actually correct and the version ... [snip!] ... to read it differently then those who can read it in it's native laugauge.. but I may never get the answers to that. "</blockquote>




Are you purposely trying to misread what I write?
The qur'an is ONLY in arabic. What is in english is NOT the qur'an and is a translation of the MEANING of the qur'an. You saying that they can 'read the qur'an and understand it' means nothing because like I said, while you may undertand some of it- the actual meaning must be explained. <-------- reread everything I just wrote a couple of times so you understand what I am saying.
And again, I CAN READ ARABIC lol. It's hard for me to believe that you are not purposely cherry picking certain things that i am saying.



I do not read books like Infidel because often times they are exaggerated to make a good story. I am not saying ur dads gf or whatever is lying about her ex, i am merely saying (her ex or whoever) was not acting based on his religion. Maybe the screwed up version of his culture and what he THINKS is in his religion. Islam is the fastest growing religion of women (and men, mostly women) in the entire world. Of women who are white, asian, and ARab. Meaning even women who speak arabic, who read the actual qur'an, are becoming muslim. Muslim women have an extremely high status in Islam, and are given rights that no other religion has given their women.

eKnuckles Due February 13; Florida 3438 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Layla-and-Faith:</b>" And please understand that I am not trying to be rude or mean. I am actually very interested and curious. ... [snip!] ... is why the messages you follow are so much different then how the people who read it in it's native language understand it."</blockquote>




If you want to keep talking about this you can PM me, we've gone completely off topic from the original topic and it's keeping this at the top of the D&D forum.

Bangtail 50 kids; Katy, Texas 7751 posts
4th Feb '13

I think if the woman is being accused of a crime, then she should have to show more then her eyes. But just acting as witness, she should be able to keep covered. This is a tough one, especially in sexual assault cases. She has been shamed once, so now we force her to shame herself again? I think that there could be ways around this. You don't want to discourage other Muslim women from coming forward by forcing them to go against their religious beliefs.