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justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Marlee*TTC*:" I appreciate ALL of y'all's opinions, I was just trying to understand the term "birth" rape. I just never ... [snip!] ... I will always feel angry at that term I suppose, and I can't explaine why except to say your drs had a reason my rapist didn't."

It is well documented that Dr's don't in fact "always" have a reason...for real. There are stories of women who chose home births & then went to the hospital after to be checked out & getting an episiotomie AFTER the child is born from a rude Dr saying he did it to deliver the placenta (that is NOT ever a needed part of placenta delivery). Someone cutting your vaginal area to be on a power trip because they are disgusted by your home birth is pretty huge violation. You won't hear about most cases though because if you sue & actually want to get paid, you'll get a big fat gag order....and you won't get anyone to press charge criminally.

nursemaya mom to 3! 3 kids; 5 angel babies; Minnesota 16003 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting ♥ darah ♥:" <blockquote><b>Quoting nursemaya -mommy to 2:</b>" Are you certified as a doula? I'm ... [snip!] ... and volunteer for underprivileged women. I have done most of the required reading though as my MIL Is a doula instructor."


I am doing all my doula work on a volunteer basis as well and will continue to do so once certified. Someday I may do that and the IBCLC as my actual job, maybe even go for midwife after the kids are older

user banned Colorado 21030 posts
27th Dec '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting nursemaya -mommy to 2:</b>" I am doing all my doula work on a volunteer basis as well and will continue to do so once certified. ... [snip!] ... do so once certified. Someday I may do that and the IBCLC as my actual job, maybe even go for midwife after the kids are older"</blockquote>




midwife would be hard with little ones. I am not a fan of the orgs because I kinda just think they care about money more than the people

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
27th Dec '12

I have heard rape victims tell me they experienced birth rape. These are not women who are upset over not getting the birth they wanted - they were violated while in the most vulnerable of positions. It doesn't offend me & I am a victim as well. I had a bad birth. It was not at all what I wanted in so many ways. I was traumatized by how it went & had nightmares about it for ages after (and there was no emergency or fetal distress, the safety of my baby was never in question, but I thought I may die at some points which is another story). The difference is I felt respected, I felt heard & I was never ignored. Even with #2 I remember the Dr telling me he was going to "ease the baby's head out" and when I said NO - get your hands out of me, he did. Had he not he likely would have gotten a foot in the face, literally. I did NOT want his hands in me & did not consent to that. The baby came out just fine without it, just leaving a small skid.



Where is all that pro-choice, her body, HER choice energy gone in this thread?



If someone says NO - they should be told WHY it would be in their best interest, but I can't imagine why at ANY point in your life you ever loose the right to refuse a treatment.



_________________________________________________________
From here: http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1077764/Birth_Rape_No_means_no_even_in_a_hospital
NO Means NO, even in hospital



Does no always mean no? Does it matter where we are? Does it matter what we are wearing? Does it matter what we are doing? Who defines rape? Is there ever a grey area?



It doesn

nursemaya mom to 3! 3 kids; 5 angel babies; Minnesota 16003 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting ♥ darah ♥:" <blockquote><b>Quoting nursemaya -mommy to 2:</b>" I am doing all my doula work on ... [snip!] ... be hard with little ones. I am not a fan of the orgs because I kinda just think they care about money more than the people"


many people in our area would ONLY use a certified doula so if you want to do it you almost have to have a certification. I respect the standardization that comes with certification since without it there is nothing saying that any person, no matter their experience or knowledge, could be employed as a doula. I think it protects the laboring woman. Not everyone is concientious and does reading and research, some areessentially coming with the attitude that "well I've never seen a birth, but I stayed at a holiday inn express last night"

Vivian [♥] 2 kids; Balls Deep, in, Georgia 13915 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting justanothamotha:" I have heard rape victims tell me they experienced birth rape. These are not women who are upset over ... [snip!] ... To read one midwifes thoughts on birth rape, follow this link; http://observantmidwife.blogspot.com...otherwise.html"


all of that is fine and dandy.
But it's still not rape.
No one forced a p***s into anyone's vagina for sexual purposes.



We are all just saying that the name of this term is bad. It belittles what REAL rape really is.
Yes, it is horrible to have a dr force their hand inside you when you don't consent, but it's also for MEDICAL reasons, not sexual. Which is why using the term "rape" is so offensive to a lot of women.



I'm not saying that this "birth rape" stuff doesn't happen. I said before, I can't tell a woman how she feels. But it is not rape, I don't know what it is, but it's not rape.

nursemaya mom to 3! 3 kids; 5 angel babies; Minnesota 16003 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Vivian [♥]:" all of that is fine and dandy. But it's still not rape. No one forced a p***s into anyone's vagina ... [snip!] ... happen. I said before, I can't tell a woman how she feels. But it is not rape, I don't know what it is, but it's not rape."

:!::!::!:

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Vivian [♥]:" all of that is fine and dandy. But it's still not rape. No one forced a p***s into anyone's vagina ... [snip!] ... happen. I said before, I can't tell a woman how she feels. But it is not rape, I don't know what it is, but it's not rape."

Rape does not always involve a p***s - even in "regular" rape (hate to use that term, but can find no other). Objects are also used as well as hands. Rape is not defined by the use of a p***s...ever. If a man rapes a woman with a d***o or a beer bottle is she less raped? If he shoves his fingers in her because he can't get it up...what is that?

user banned Colorado 21030 posts
27th Dec '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting nursemaya -mommy to 2:</b>" many people in our area would ONLY use a certified doula so if you want to do it you almost have to ... [snip!] ... areessentially coming with the attitude that "well I've never seen a birth, but I stayed at a holiday inn express last night" "</blockquote>




here it isn't an issue. I know a lot of unverified doulas that have heavy clienteles. especially cmt doulas or doulas who are trained in other specialties. I've never met anyone who's wanted proof of certification or had asked if certified or would make it a deal breaker. plus it's not something I am doing long term. I have no doubt I would pass the required testing as I have done most of the required reading. I am simply morally against organizations in general.

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Vivian [♥]:" all of that is fine and dandy. But it's still not rape. No one forced a p***s into anyone's vagina ... [snip!] ... happen. I said before, I can't tell a woman how she feels. But it is not rape, I don't know what it is, but it's not rape."

And for me - I am not in the habit of defining anyone else's experience of anything. If a well balanced woman I have known for along time tells me what she experienced was experienced as a physical violation of her self & to HER it felt like rape - then I believe her. That is just how I am. Like I said - I didn't experience anything that felt violating. I felt traumatized for sure but never even close to violated through my births.



I believe her if she tells me that is what she experienced. I have NO reason not to.

Vivian [♥] 2 kids; Balls Deep, in, Georgia 13915 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting justanothamotha:" Rape does not always involve a p***s - even in "regular" rape (hate to use that term, but can find no ... [snip!] ... with a d***o or a beer bottle is she less raped? If he shoves his fingers in her because he can't get it up...what is that?"


sexually assaulted
molested



And in regards to this "birth rape stuff", they were violated.



All terms you can use for that.
I still stand behind the fact that RAPE is a SEXUAL act. Not a dr MEDICALLY intervening for the baby or mother's safety. JMO, and it's not going to be changed.

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Vivian [♥]:" sexually assaulted molested And in regards to this "birth rape stuff", they were violated. All terms ... [snip!] ... RAPE is a SEXUAL act. Not a dr MEDICALLY intervening for the baby or mother's safety. JMO, and it's not going to be changed."

Well you'd be wrong about the terms you are using as it is called object rape......legally & otherwise.



You are free to continue to believe that all these things Drs do to women are for mother or baby safety but I'd strongly recommend at some time you read up on birth practices outside your familiarity & see how often those same interventions are used outside hospital settings & what the birth outcomes are for moms & babies statistically. Low risks mothers have better birth outcomes at home and have much fewer interventions.

user banned Colorado 21030 posts
27th Dec '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" Well you'd be wrong about the terms you are using as it is called object rape......legally & otherwise. ... [snip!] ... for moms & babies statistically. Low risks mothers have better birth outcomes at home and have much fewer interventions."</blockquote>




a lot of things are unnecessary. I agree. I also feel that childbirth in the US is built on misogyny.women aren't allowed to be in control.

BunnyGirl19 Due December 13; 3 kids; 10 angel babies; Oregon 16846 posts
status 27th Dec '12

<blockquote><b>Quoting Viv, Ev & Gwen ♥:</b>" Calling anything but sexual violation rape sickens me and pisses me off so badly."</blockquote>




Same here, and I get tired of hearing it. And it minimizes the survivors of the heinous violation of actually being raped.

Loretta West [+1] Due March 26; TTC since May 2013; 1 child; Auckland, New Zealand 5973 posts
27th Dec '12
Quoting Vivian [♥]:" same here, a little tug and it came right out :lol:"


Lucky.. it snapped when they tried to do that for me, I had two midwives, a doctor and a surgeon up there trying to get it out.
My birth went nowhere near according to plan, but no f**king way would I call it rape. I had to have medical procedures to save my baby, and ended up in theatre for a manual removal of my placenta because it didn't detach. Boo hoo, we're both alive and thats what counts. I had so many hands up my hoo ha after he was out that I'm pretty sure thats what caused the tearing and grazing, not him coming out