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user banned 4 kids; Mueang Phuket, Thailand 30487 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting 36-24-36OnlyIfshes5-3:" The procedure for 1st and second trimester abortions are the same as for D&C and D&E. that's how they ... [snip!] ... then (with forceps) but the procedure changes from there because obviously if they proceeded the child would be born alive."
Ellie. 34 kids; Arizona 25371 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting 36-24-36OnlyIfshes5-3:" The procedure for 1st and second trimester abortions are the same as for D&C and D&E. that's how they ... [snip!] ... then (with forceps) but the procedure changes from there because obviously if they proceeded the child would be born alive."


Cracking up at your user name. ha ha ha

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting 36-24-36OnlyIfshes5-3:" The procedure for 1st and second trimester abortions are the same as for D&C and D&E. that's how they ... [snip!] ... then (with forceps) but the procedure changes from there because obviously if they proceeded the child would be born alive."


THAT is very helpful, thank you. I haven't had an abortion so I don't even really know all the details of what's involved. That does help though.

Ellie. 34 kids; Arizona 25371 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Stfu Shirley:" Well I am sure that they learned a lot about how NOT to do an abortion that way too. I'm talking about ... [snip!] ... and I believe they have a collection. I could be wrong. Once I told them why I wanted to know, they stopped talking to me."


Ive heard of that museum! I love medical oddities

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting ☮ Phuket:" i hate to think theis has even happened to little babies... to me, tahts being born alive. that baby could very well take a breath... : ( waaah i hate thinking about it"


With all due respect, would you please not do that in this thread? I didn't intend it to be a moral/ethical conversation on abortion. There are plenty of other threads for that.

A is Me 1 child; South Carolina 3782 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting ☮ Phuket:" i hate to think theis has even happened to little babies... to me, tahts being born alive. that baby could very well take a breath... : ( waaah i hate thinking about it"


That's the issue that interests me. How did they kill the baby? Before extraction, which is what I believe they do now, or after? It's horrible to think about but they had to have explored different ways in order to find the most humane.

user banned 4 kids; Mueang Phuket, Thailand 30487 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Stfu Shirley:" With all due respect, would you please not do that in this thread? I didn't intend it to be a moral/ethical conversation on abortion. There are plenty of other threads for that."


im sorry i wasnt trying to do that, i was refering to the partial birth. i will delete.

user banned 4 kids; Mueang Phuket, Thailand 30487 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting A is Me:" That's the issue that interests me. How did they kill the baby? Before extraction, which is what I believe ... [snip!] ... do now, or after? It's horrible to think about but they had to have explored different ways in order to find the most humane."


id assume back in teh day maybe they would just D&C and then no oxygen can be passed to the fetus. Im sure they figured its best to do it before the extraction with trial and error.

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting ☮ Phuket:" im sorry i wasnt trying to do that, i was refering to the partial birth. i will delete."


Thanks, I really appreciate that.

user banned 4 kids; Mueang Phuket, Thailand 30487 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Stfu Shirley:" Thanks, I really appreciate that."


yup yup

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13

Sorry, everybody, to make all your brains go to such an unpleasant place.



Nobody ever talked about my great grandmother and I didn't even know her name until last spring. So I have been doing a lot of research, mostly just to find out about her life, not so much her death...I feel like there was so much shame and sadness surrounding the memories everybody had of her, and in my heart I feel like she was part of early medical research, which, to me, gives her a special place of honor in history. I know she was a good mother and very devoted to her children. If she hadn't been, she would not have been so desperate at the end. She had two kids die in early childhood and they couldn't feed the ones they had, so it was a really awful situation all around.



As I learned more about her, I came up with a whole lot more questions. I am a big dummy about medical stuff, and I knew you ladies would give me some ideas to think about and help me answer some of the questions I had. Thank you.

Ellie. 34 kids; Arizona 25371 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Stfu Shirley:" Sorry, everybody, to make all your brains go to such an unpleasant place. Nobody ever talked about my ... [snip!] ... stuff, and I knew you ladies would give me some ideas to think about and help me answer some of the questions I had. Thank you."


:( I think it's noble and brave when people make that decision. SOrry, I know you asked for no debates or anything... but that must have been extremely difficult watching your children die and worry about how you'll care for another. :(

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Ellie.:" :( I think it's noble and brave when people make that decision. SOrry, I know you asked for no debates ... [snip!] ... but that must have been extremely difficult watching your children die and worry about how you'll care for another. :("


Yes. There was a little boy who died around age two of whooping cough. I remember when my grandmother told me about him, when I was a little girl. She said they all loved playing with him so much and they just all cried and cried when he died. Then there was a baby girl, who I think may have been born really premature and did not live long. I think by then, the family was pretty much destitute and my grandmother and her siblings were going hungry most of the time, so the baby dying wasn't really on the same level. It's so sad to think about how things were back then.



eta: I didn't post all of this to depress the hell out of bg today, so I will just add that after her mom died, my grandmother (age 11 at the time) went to live with an aunt and uncle, who were able to make sure she could stay in school. She became a nurse then married my grandfather, who gave her the happiest life imaginable. So it turned out ok for her. She was an amazing lady who never complained about a single thing.

Ellie. 34 kids; Arizona 25371 posts
15th Jan '13

I wonder what the statistics are on abortion back then. Or if there's even any record. My favorite book is Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt. Autobiography with a lot of similarities. She had like 20,000 kids because it was her "job" to lay there when her husband wanted, so she was always pregnant. They were so poor (during the famine in Ireland) and some of her kids died too.

So I wonder how many abortions happened because husbands just didnt give a shit and wanted their nut?

Stfu Squirrel District of Columbia 8554 posts
15th Jan '13
Quoting Ellie.:" I wonder what the statistics are on abortion back then. Or if there's even any record. My favorite book ... [snip!] ... of her kids died too. So I wonder how many abortions happened because husbands just didnt give a shit and wanted their nut?"


a LOT. The stats vary depending on the source, and it's impossible to really know because it was such a hush-hush thing. Everybody always said my g-gma died of cancer. The truth didn't come out until my oldest great-aunt, who was a teenager when her mom died and a little more clued-in to what was happening, told a few relatives just before she died.



There was just no birth control. So whether the husbands were good or bad, women were just...trapped.