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The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
4th Feb '13

Ok, go through systematically and explain on a molecular level how these systems are bypassed. I want to see that you truly understand what exactly you're saying. Some things are INTENDED to bypass certain systems. Take heparin vs lovenox, just off the top of my head. Heparin is a larger molecular weight anticoagulant. When you give a patient Heparin, you are never quite sure how much of the heparin they are actually getting because many of the molecules bind to proteins that veiw them as harmful and render the heparin useless. LOVENOX, on the other hand, is a low molecular weight heparin and the molecules are so small that they BYPASS or CIRCUMVENT the body's natural defense of attacking it so in turn, you get the full effect of the Lovenox and you can be more careful. THAT IS JUST ONE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of why some things in medicine are done to 'trick' the body.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
4th Feb '13
Quoting Mama Lizzy :]:" <blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" There are TONS of medications that ... [snip!] ... you mean....I have come across some nasty oranges...not even worth eating...I love to shop fruits/veggies seasonally based :))"


The shitty part of the good vs. bad orange thing is that you never know until you go home, peel one and eat it.... and find out then if it's good or bad.

Mama Lizzy :] 1 child; Texas 5575 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" Ok, go through systematically and explain on a molecular level how these systems are bypassed. I want ... [snip!] ... and you can be more careful. THAT IS JUST ONE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of why some things in medicine are done to 'trick' the body."</blockquote>




Oh dear well thats alot of typing...Also I wasnt really referring to the nasty ingredients in the vaccine such as aluminum.....although aluminum is absorbed by our bodies naturally from the earth at a much smaller rate compared to injection. There was also a study I will try to find later that compares the amount of aluminum a nb can excrete via kidneys to how much is in the hep b vaccine...pretty alarming. It's cited in the vaccination book by Dr. Sears



I hate to pull out a biased link but in like the second paragraph I think this kind of walks through the organs of the immune system I was talking about...Natural occuring virus vs vaccine tricking the body into thinking it was infected...again sorry about the biased link



http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Your-Immune-System-How-It-Works-And-How-Vaccines-Damage-It

Mama Lizzy :] 1 child; Texas 5575 posts
4th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" The shitty part of the good vs. bad orange thing is that you never know until you go home, peel one and eat it.... and find out then if it's good or bad. "</blockquote>




Yep...all that excitment for nothin'

EnnaBennaBanana Due February 2; 2 kids; Maryland 6195 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:" Yeah. UNLESS you can attest to the fact that you know the EXACT chemical composition of every single ... [snip!] ... specifically, in which specific vaccines you're talking about that have been produced/used on children in the last 5 years?"


Family members on both sides of my sons fam have been injured by vaccines. (the family member on my side having the most severe reaction.) I am not going to give my infant tons of vaccines. I do vaccinate however I wait till 3 years old and then we only do a select few. I want to wait till his system is more mature and all that. And I'll tell you this, my son is healthier then most fully vaxed children that we know. He's only had one vaccine so far and that was in Decemeber.. 2 months after he turned 3. Parents have a right to be concernd.
Antibiotics are not given as much as vaccines. And I am VERY carful with antibiotics aswell. But they aren't trying to pump antibiotics into my perfectly healthy child every get well visit.

Phallus Cranium cocksuck, LA, Sri Lanka 108892 posts
5th Feb '13


Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:" Ok, I've been watching this thread for a little bit now and I have to say a few things: 1.) Red Bottom- ... [snip!] ... already dranken the kool aid.... 5...... I have more than this to say but I have to look back at the thread because I forgot"



Vaccines are very profitable.

Especially when manufacturers are protected from the majority of vaccine injuries.
http://vactruth.com/2012/11/30/2011-billions-vaccine-manufacturers/



http://centerforvaccineethicsandpolicy.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/global-vaccines-revenues-projected-to-more-than-double-by-2016/

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2009/11/30/vaccine_revolution.ART_ART_11-30-09_A10_7NFQQE7.html

Mama Lizzy :] 1 child; Texas 5575 posts
5th Feb '13

I wouldn't say I am completely anti vaccines.....just not comfortable with any of the ones out right now for my child's age. After 3 I might reevaluate....but his blood brain barrier will be more developed...I think its something like seven years old when it is fully developed.




ETA: More than likely not tho :)...I think every child and situation is different....one way isn't right for all kids. However 8 vaccines at once for 2 month olds...I dont see safe....ever.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting Mama Lizzy :]:" <blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" Ok, go through systematically and explain ... [snip!] ... sorry about the biased link http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Your-Immune-System-How-It-Works-And-How-Vaccines-Damage-It"


You see, that still doesn't sate my need to see that you TRULY understand why YOU are so opposed to vaccination. And that is ok, because we're talking molecular biology here- not basic addition and subtraction so I wouldn't expect the average layperson to understand it. I'm not saying you're stupid by any means, just under-informed. I'm just saying that if you are going to spearhead an effort to ensure your family remains vaccinated as little as humanly possible then you should completely and totally understand every argument that you're using before you use it and rely on other people's biased sources to explain what you don't completely understand. I am not saying that I completely understand the pharmacokinetics involved in every vaccine- but I am not refusing them based on things that I don't understand, thus putting my child at risk for dangerous diseases that have the potential to cause serious harm/death.

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:" You see, that still doesn't sate my need to see that you TRULY understand why YOU are so opposed to ... [snip!] ... I don't understand, thus putting my child at risk for dangerous diseases that have the potential to cause serious harm/death. "

So those that opt out have to have a masters degree in immunology & those that take them just need the Dr's nod? Interesting concept.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting EnnaBennaBanana:" Family members on both sides of my sons fam have been injured by vaccines. (the family member on my ... [snip!] ... with antibiotics aswell. But they aren't trying to pump antibiotics into my perfectly healthy child every get well visit."


When you say "vaccine injured" PLEASE elaborate. Most sources that I'm seeing are showing expected adverse reactions being labeled as "vaccine injuries". The "anti-vaccine movement" has re-labeled the phrase adverse reaction to make it sound like something a whole lot more 'sneaky'. EVERY medication out there has adverse reactions- and there are people out there that have been "injured" by correctly using every medicine on the market because some people will just be allergic to some things. IT IS WITH EVERY MEDICINE OUT THERE. We just don't hear about these people nearly as much because other medicines aren't at the heart of a "hot button issue" like vaccines are. I have given OODLES of vaccines. Thousands, probably. And I have never seen an immediate, life threatening reaction from it-- Penicillin, Vancomycin on the other hand? People on a daily basis come to the hospital with bracelets stating their allergies to those medications- some who found out by anaphylaxis... but they GET IT that it's just a risk of taking anything (food, meds, environmental particles) into their bodies.



And as far as doctors "Pumping these into healthy kids"... and them not giving abx (antibiotics) at every visit.... Well, in case you didn't know... that is HOW VACCINES work. If you wait until the kids are sick, the vaccine is moot point. Vaccines are given to healthy kids to keep them healthy. They are Prophylactic medicine at it's best. Abx are given to kids that are already sick (unless they are given as a prophylactic to such populations that are susceptible to, oh, idk, valvuar infections during dental work).

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting Mama Lizzy :]:" I wouldn't say I am completely anti vaccines.....just not comfortable with any of the ones out right ... [snip!] ... is different....one way isn't right for all kids. However 8 vaccines at once for 2 month olds...I dont see safe....ever."


My daughter has taken every vaccine available to her.... and has never gotten more than 3 vaccines at a visit....? So I don't know what you're talking about, getting 8 at once? Maybe in rare, isolated instances that happens but that IS NOT THE NORM.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting justanothamotha:" So those that opt out have to have a masters degree in immunology & those that take them just need the Dr's nod? Interesting concept."


Nope, I'm just saying that if you're going to make a decision that directly contradicts what your healthcare professional who HAS gone to school for a gajillion years says, then you ought to at least study the very specific arguments that you stand by when you decline the vaccine. You don't have to take the whole "doctor" course... just understand the science that you're citing to decline what the professional thinks is best. The doctor is there as your child's advocate.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting .Colleen.:" "



EVERY PHARMACEUTICAL ON THE MARKET IS A MONEY MAKER!!! Otherwise they wouldn't be on the market at all. Pharmaceutical companies in general are HUGELY profitable. Not just vaccine makers.



And all medications have a "insert with adverse reactions" in them. It is implied or informed consent. Your doctor/nurse should explain EVERY medication to you. All pharm companies are somewhat protected from the possible injuries from their medications.

Mama Lizzy :] 1 child; Texas 5575 posts
5th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" You see, that still doesn't sate my need to see that you TRULY understand why YOU are so opposed to ... [snip!] ... I don't understand, thus putting my child at risk for dangerous diseases that have the potential to cause serious harm/death. "</blockquote>




Sorry I didn't think it was a difficult concept to understand....nor did I see a need to type all that out for you. I am comfortable with my understanding on the immune system, each disease, and each vaccine. I did not jump to this decision lightly..I delayed and delayed for almost a year while I researched all of these things...I am comfortable in my current decision as his mother.

The Pretender 2 kids; Brazil 1232 posts
5th Feb '13
Quoting Mama Lizzy :]:" <blockquote><b>Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:</b>" You see, that still doesn't sate ... [snip!] ... and delayed for almost a year while I researched all of these things...I am comfortable in my current decision as his mother."


Right, I got that... but this is a debate and discuss forum... so I was looking for more than "Because I thought about it long and hard and can put links on the thread." I think all good parents only do what they THINK is best. Thats all you can really ask.