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Mama McNeely 2 kids; Bremerton, Washington 5117 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Colton's Butterfly:" I totally think of it this way. But in treating the situation like that, it's like you're saying these ... [snip!] ... force us to come to Him. He is forced to leave us to deal witht he consequences of our decisions. Does that kind of make sense?"

Um a jail sentence where you eventually will get out and a burning fiery pit of eternal damnation are two different things IMO

Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Mama McNeely:</b>" Um a jail sentence where you eventually will get out and a burning fiery pit of eternal damnation are two different things IMO"</blockquote>




I agree.

Lucid Dreamer Florida 3817 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Colton's Butterfly:" I totally think of it this way. But in treating the situation like that, it's like you're saying these ... [snip!] ... force us to come to Him. He is forced to leave us to deal witht he consequences of our decisions. Does that kind of make sense?"

I don't disagree with that except I also don't believe God ever turns his back on anyone.

Lucid Dreamer Florida 3817 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Colton's Butterfly:" Good by who's standards, though? Good by ours. God has ridiculously high standards. I mean, they are ... [snip!] ... why he made a way for us to be redeemed from our imperfections through Jesus Christ. Hopefully I'm not rambling too much!"

I don't think God looks at us like that nor are his standards so high. I believe God sees us as perfect because in our true state we are perfect as our true selves are pieces of God. The earth is a place to gain knowledge through experience which cannot happen in the perfect realm. So we have to become something we are not or so-called being born into sin. We forgot our true nature and our origins so we can truly experience good and bad. This is a great gift.

Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Lucid Dreamer:</b>" I don't think God looks at us like that nor are his standards so high. I believe God sees us as perfect ... [snip!] ... being born into sin. We forgot our true nature and our origins so we can truly experience good and bad. This is a great gift."</blockquote>




I agree with this that we all have a piece of the gods in us. I believe in multiple gods, but I think they are all branches from a single entity, if that makes any sense.

~*Julie Blue Eyes*~ 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6107 posts
status 27th Feb '13
Quoting Upper Echelon:" But there are people out there who cant make that choice. What about people who aren't saved, get into ... [snip!] ... if nothing is lost (the animals who were sacrificed prior to the ultimate sacrifice were not resurrected after 3 days)."


The Bible is actually pretty clear on this "problem".



First, Romans 1:20 says that:



"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"





This means that even people that have not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will KNOW that God exists...and...have NO excuse for unbelief.



Romans 2: 12-15 says:


Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" The Bible is actually pretty clear on this "problem". First, Romans 1:20 says that: "For the invisible ... [snip!] ... as Christianity wouldn't exist. "Christian" was a word that was derived from the group of followers of Jesus Christ. "</blockquote>




I'm not intentionally being hard headed, but I'm confused.



I'm not sure I understand the scripture you posted first. Is it King James Version? I've always been horrible at understanding KJV. Lol.



If God is giving them signs that he is there, wouldn't the bush people just think it is signs from their sun god or whatever they worship?

~*Julie Blue Eyes*~ 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6107 posts
status 27th Feb '13
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" The Bible is actually pretty clear ... [snip!] ... them signs that he is there, wouldn't the bush people just think it is signs from their sun god or whatever they worship?"


I don't think you are hard headed or anything of the sort.



I actually think you are polite and pretty damn cool.



According to the Bible, our conscience is given to us by God. It is what gives us our sense of right and wrong.



Someone with ONLY the knowledge of what is around them and not the "advantage" of the Bible, wouldn't necessarily acknowledge the God of the Bible, in that sense, but would be judged according to their own conscience and what they know of right and wrong. God knows people's hearts.



People who have heard the Bible and reject it are judged according to their rejection.

Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" I don't think you are hard headed or anything of the sort. I actually think you are polite and pretty ... [snip!] ... and wrong. God knows people's hearts. People who have heard the Bible and reject it are judged according to their rejection."</blockquote>




Ahhhh ok. I can totally jive with that.




And thank you! I feel the same for you! :D you're one of the nicer people on here I think. I've never seen you be rude or hateful. :)

Riley+Abby Due October 4; 1 child; Toronto, Ontario 1881 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Lucid Dreamer:" I don't disagree with that except I also don't believe God ever turns his back on anyone."


You're totally right! He doesn't. But He also doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. That's the thing about Christianity. It's a choice, and something no one can force on you. It's also a relationship. God will never turn His back on us, never stop trying to win our hearts, but will not force us into that place of submission. That's something I have to do for myself.



Think of it like marriage. You're not married unless both people say I do, right? Well, God's already said "I do". He's just waiting for me to say it in return, so that he can claim me as His own. He cannot claim me as his own unless I have given Him that confirmation that I am His.



Dang, I use analogies way too often. :D Btw, this is by far the best religious debate I've ever been in. I absolutely love how civil everyone's being. It's awesome!

Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" You're totally right! He doesn't. But He also doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. That's the thing ... [snip!] ... :D Btw, this is by far the best religious debate I've ever been in. I absolutely love how civil everyone's being. It's awesome!"</blockquote>




I was taught what you said, but I was also told by several people at this Christian college where I used to work that after a whole God will stop trying and just leave you. And that once he does, no matter what you do you can't be saved. Also they said that some people are just not able to be saved no matter how much they want to be. That only certain people are able to be saved.
That whole conversation had me like :?



But then again I'm not sure how Christian they truly were. They talked crap about other people and non believers a lot. I had to pretend I was Christian while working there. :?




And :D civility rocks. :D

Minion Due September 30; 2 kids; Toccoa, GA, United States 19992 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" You're totally right! He doesn't. But He also doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. That's the thing ... [snip!] ... :D Btw, this is by far the best religious debate I've ever been in. I absolutely love how civil everyone's being. It's awesome!"</blockquote>




I was taught what you said, but I was also told by several people at this Christian college where I used to work that after a whole God will stop trying and just leave you. And that once he does, no matter what you do you can't be saved. Also they said that some people are just not able to be saved no matter how much they want to be. That only certain people are able to be saved.
That whole conversation had me like :?



But then again I'm not sure how Christian they truly were. They talked crap about other people and non believers a lot. I had to pretend I was Christian while working there. :?




And :D civility rocks. :D

Riley+Abby Due October 4; 1 child; Toronto, Ontario 1881 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" You're totally right! He doesn't. ... [snip!] ... other people and non believers a lot. I had to pretend I was Christian while working there. :? And :D civility rocks. :D"


Well, they were wrong. Absolutely. That is not my Christianity. I hate when people do that...And I quote God: "I will never leave you. I will never forsake you."



Man! Everything they said ticked me off. And definitely not what I believe. God will never stop trying to bring you to Him. I mean, He sent His own Son to die on a cross, and you're telling me that He'd then stop trying to pursue me because I was being stubborn? That goes against everything I believe about who He is. And the whole reason Jesus came to die on the cross was so that everyone could be saved, not just the Jews.



Sounds like they had pretty messed up theology, to me. :D



Yes! I love civility!



And I'm curious now...you said you were Wiccan? I've heard of it before...but I know nothing about it. Care to enlighten me? :) What do you believe?



Lucid Dreamer Florida 3817 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Colton's Butterfly:" You're totally right! He doesn't. But He also doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. That's the thing ... [snip!] ... :D Btw, this is by far the best religious debate I've ever been in. I absolutely love how civil everyone's being. It's awesome!"

I am glad you are enjoying this thread. Getting back to the topic I believe it is not really necessary to believe in God as humans because our inner selves already know God as our beingness is a part of God. Here is an example. There was a woman who was atheist which in itself is not an issue but she was self loathing and had all kinds of physical and psychological issues. During some prodedure that went wrong she had a near death experience and went out of her body. The first she realized to her delight she was no longer the person in her body and went into the presence of God who loved her completely though he knew she did not believe in him and also knew she would argue with him about having to go back to her body as her time was not up. She noted that God was not only totally loving but also had a great sense of humor and delighted in hers. When she returned to her body she was a knower of God rather than a believer. She did not get involved in any religion

Lucid Dreamer Florida 3817 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" You're totally right! He doesn't. ... [snip!] ... other people and non believers a lot. I had to pretend I was Christian while working there. :? And :D civility rocks. :D"

The way I understand Jesus this would go against everything he taught. People are not supposed to judge others and are supposed to treat others with kindness. I did have my judgemental days but also came to realize that I was doing nothing more than serving an inflated ego. Attacking others does just that.