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Minion 3 kids; ., GA, United States 21802 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" Well, they were wrong. Absolutely. That is not my Christianity. I hate when people do that...And I quote ... [snip!] ... you were Wiccan? I've heard of it before...but I know nothing about it. Care to enlighten me? :) What do you believe? "</blockquote>




I will totally tell you all about it when I get off work, lol. It's a lot to type. :)

Upper Echelon 2 kids; Kansas City, Missouri 5445 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" The Bible is actually pretty clear on this "problem". First, Romans 1:20 says that: "For the invisible ... [snip!] ... as Christianity wouldn't exist. "Christian" was a word that was derived from the group of followers of Jesus Christ. "


"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"



Allow me to process this...those who grow up in remote areas of the world, with no contact with civilization, books, ministries, are aware of gods greatness and have no excuse not to praise him and worship him? If that is the case, why do we need the bible? If we are aware of gods greatness, simply because we are on earth, and have dirt beneath our feet, what was the need for his word in the form of a book?



Romans 1:21 goes on to say "For although they KNEW Gdo, they neither glorified him nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened"



The previous scripture does not mean what you're implying it means.



"It is a fact that all of mankind can tell that a creator does exist, because His creation testifies to this fact."
No, it is absolutely not a fact. Many people agreeing that it is the truth, despite loads of physical evidence against their claims, does not make it a fact. The Earth exists, that is a fact. We know that everything on it is made of atoms, that is another fact. But that we were all intelligently designed by a supernatural being is not a fact.



"Jesus, wasn't the only way to Heaven."
But the book of Romans, the scripture you posted, is from the New Testament, after Christ.



I fail to see how cherry picking scripture out of the book of Romans supports your case in any way. Do you even know what the book of Romans is about? It's God's plan for salvation for Jews and Gentiles. Those with law, and those without law, Paul was attempting to bring them together. Those scriptures do nothing to support your stance.

Kaleighshaleigh 3 kids; USA 6424 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b>" You're totally right! He doesn't. ... [snip!] ... other people and non believers a lot. I had to pretend I was Christian while working there. :? And :D civility rocks. :D"


"And that once he does, no matter what you do you can't be saved. Also they said that some people are just not able to be saved no matter how much they want to be."

Whoever said this doesn't understand the faith that they are talking about. God loves us and wants us to accept his gift of salvation. To say that he wouldn't "no matter how much they wanted to be" is ridiculous. This is when you ask someone to show you scripture to back up their statements. I have found that many "Christians" repeat what they have heard or misunderstood instead of what they have actually read and studied on their own, which makes us all look bad.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood ... [snip!] ... law, and those without law, Paul was attempting to bring them together. Those scriptures do nothing to support your stance."</blockquote>




I study the Bible nightly, along with prayer. I do know what Romans is all about. I am not "cherry picking".



Creation provides a clear revelation not only of the fact of God, but of His divine nature, and man

Upper Echelon 2 kids; Kansas City, Missouri 5445 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" "For the invisible things of him from ... [snip!] ... to them, but a heart hungry for God will be nourished. The Gospel and salvation are both available to everyone on earth."


Have you ever studied anything other than the bible?

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" Have you ever studied anything other than the bible? "</blockquote>




Sure. I think I am pretty well learned. However, I am so convinced that the Bible is true that I am betting my (eternal) life on it.



...and I won't lie, I also believe books that challenge the Bible are like poison to me. I have a very inquisitive mind and could probably get into a bit of spiritual trouble if entertained enough, by something contrary. Mankind can be pretty dang convincing.

Upper Echelon 2 kids; Kansas City, Missouri 5445 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" Have you ever studied anything other than ... [snip!] ... get into a bit of spiritual trouble if entertained enough, by something contrary. Mankind can be pretty dang convincing."


Yep, and mankind did write the bible.



I was a christian for a long time, and like you, I have a pretty inquisitive mind. Once I realized that I really only believed what I believed, because it was what my parents raised me to believe, and that I was growing up and beginning to disagree with their points of view on lots of other things, I started reading about other religions, and then science (and back and forth and back and forth) and became agnostic, then atheist.



If you're happy where you're at, stay there. Once I let go of religion and began living for the here and now, breathing in every moment because I believe my life is finite, and finding that my only accountability is to my husband, children, family, and friends; I felt the same "born again" feeling that Christians feel when they find god.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" Yep, and mankind did write the bible. I was a christian for a long time, and like you, I have a pretty ... [snip!] ... is to my husband, children, family, and friends; I felt the same "born again" feeling that Christians feel when they find god."</blockquote>



I am comfortable where I am, but, unlike you, I wasn't raised Christian. I wasn't really raised...anything. I guess we were just UNreligious.



I lost my husband almost 2 years ago and ...let's just say...I feel like I was slapped upside the head...and God was doing the slapping! My spiritual journey has only just begun. My husband dying really brought me to my knees and God seemed to have pulled me out of a very dark, scary hole. It's why I pursue Him like I do.



Despite our differences in religous stances, I place much value on a person who is "live and let live" in this regard. I apppreciate the civil discourse. Truly.

Upper Echelon 2 kids; Kansas City, Missouri 5445 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" Yep, and mankind did write the bible. ... [snip!] ... stances, I place much value on a person who is "live and let live" in this regard. I apppreciate the civil discourse. Truly."


I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine =(



I've been fortunate that I haven't lost anyone very close to me, and I know that it's going to happen eventually, and in that regard, I'm envious of the security that Christians find in their faith. My Aunt lost her son exactly a year ago in a motorcycle accident, and I know that their beliefs are what got them through that terrible time.

Lucid Dreamer Florida 3832 posts
27th Feb '13
Quoting Upper Echelon:" I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine =( I've been fortunate that I haven't lost anyone ... [snip!] ... son exactly a year ago in a motorcycle accident, and I know that their beliefs are what got them through that terrible time."

There is no need to feel envious. You are on your own path and mission in this life and I believe it is a part of the divine plan. I don't follow any religion but I believe everything there is to know is within.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
27th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine =( I've been fortunate that I haven't lost anyone ... [snip!] ... son exactly a year ago in a motorcycle accident, and I know that their beliefs are what got them through that terrible time."</blockquote>




I appreciate the heartfelt sympathy. It was rough...but I am REALLY GOOD now. I have a son who is 14 months old (my deceased husband's son) and I am in another relationship with a wonderful man.

Riley+Abby 2 kids; Toronto, Ontario 2423 posts
28th Feb '13
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Upper Echelon:</b>" I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't even ... [snip!] ... GOOD now. I have a son who is 14 months old (my deceased husband's son) and I am in another relationship with a wonderful man."

Do you mind if I PT you?

Minion 3 kids; ., GA, United States 21802 posts
28th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Colton's Butterfly:</b></blockquote>



Ok so I haven't had time to type all that I wanted to out, but here's the condensed version of what I believe. Lol.

I'm ecclectic, so I don't follow strictly one "dogma".
I believe there are many gods and goddesses and they are all branches of a single entity, but that entity can't be known by us so we have the gods.
I follow the course of the year and celebrate the seasonal changes and lunar cycles.
I follow the Wiccan Rede, which is long, but to sum it up: "Harm none and do what you will."
I worship the Egyptian gods. My main ones are Isis and Osiris, but Bast and Anubis tend to always be there also. I COULD go into the gods if you want, but I'll leave it at that for now.
I believe in ghosts. I believe there is a spirit world. I also believe that when we die we go to that spirit world until we reincarnate again.

That's the ultra condensed version. Lol.




ETA:
There is a lot more I could tell you. We even have a creation and a story that explains the seasons changing.
If you have ANY questions I'll be happy to answer. :) I don't offend easy.

Vitameatavegamin 19 kids; League City, Texas 5829 posts
28th Feb '13

Okay, so if I understand right(without reading through every comment) that the Bible is only including the Old Testament and our savior hasn't come yet, in this hypothetical scenario. So if Christ was not our savior, then I would not be a CHRISTian, I would be Jewish.

Minion 3 kids; ., GA, United States 21802 posts
28th Feb '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Lady GooGoo™:</b>" Okay, so if I understand right(without reading through every comment) that the Bible is only including ... [snip!] ... come yet, in this hypothetical scenario. So if Christ was not our savior, then I would not be a CHRISTian, I would be Jewish."</blockquote>




Well in the scenario, Jesus does not exist as a divine figure or savior. He will never come in this scenario. He was just a man. And there is no such thing as sin and God is like the God of the Old Testament.