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castaway 2 kids; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 19259 posts
4th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting jo-jo:</b>" Good points you have made! And it is true, what works well on paper does not always work well in reallity. ... [snip!] ... I would hate to be put in that position, as I know morally where I would stand and the heart ache and distress it would cause."</blockquote>



Yeah, it's just ugly.



Generally, I trust my own gut over a bunch of bureaucrats. I would never want some politician deciding something like this for me. That would be so violating.

_______Nope_________ 23772 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting Captain Obvious:" The bitch just wanted more money. I don't think it had anything to do with moral convictions."


Perhaps. That doesn't mean anything though, it's still her body. Being a surrogate doesn't mean you not longer have rights over your own body. No matter the reason she chose not to pursue the abortion (and I believe it probably was moral to some extent, or when they refused the 15k she would have taken the 10k.). That's like saying if you want an abortion out of spite you can't have it, or if you get pregnant out of spite you HAVE to have an abortion. No. It needs to be a womans choice no matter what reasons she has for making that choice.



Surrogacy is a risk. If you choose to employ a person for the job, you undertake a risk. You are trusting someone else to do what you want, but you don't, and SHOULDN'T have rights over their body.

NICKEL☮POLIS 2 kids; Ontario 6268 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting Monica♥YASDYARDFR:" Should a surrogate get a say in the termination for a child? This child was diagnosed as having a cleft ... [snip!] ... for adoption. What are your thoughts? http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/04/health/surrogacy-kelley-legal-battle/index.html?hpt=hp_c1"



That is such a horrible situation :( I definitely think she does have a say, considering it's her body. Even if it isn't technically 'her baby' she's the one that would physically have to endure the abortion.
Though there are many factors to consider- is she religious? Has she ever had an abortion? Did they agree that if something was 'wrong' with the baby then an abortion would happen etc etc

_______Nope_________ 23772 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting ♥Jessie♥:" but she also signed a contract saying she would abort if there were abnormalities.....this is where I find the dilemma. I am pro-choice but she also signed the contract."


Yes, but IMO you shouldn't be able to sign away certain rights. If I sign a contract saying I'll kill myself if I don't pay you back money, it isn't going to be enforceable. A judge isn't going to say "well, you signed it, now deal with it." There are things you can't sign away, and IMO rights to your own body need to be one of those.

jo-jo 2 kids; ..., SA, Australia 2305 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting pilot Jess:" <blockquote><b>Quoting jo-jo:</b>" Good points you have made! And it is true, what ... [snip!] ... a bunch of bureaucrats. I would never want some politician deciding something like this for me. That would be so violating."


So true!

Cass Hole 3 kids; Shiloh, IL, United States 7588 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting she nan igans:" Yes, but IMO you shouldn't be able to sign away certain rights. If I sign a contract saying I'll kill ... [snip!] ... signed it, now deal with it." There are things you can't sign away, and IMO rights to your own body need to be one of those. "


I agree. BUT she shouldn't have become a surrogate in the first place then or she should have had it written in the contract before signing that she wouldn't agree to terminate the pregnancy for any reason or amount. The parents could have then decided to agree with those terms or not gone through with the surrogacy. Her just going against their wishes and saying the hell with the contract she signed is just wrong. imo.

castaway 2 kids; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 19259 posts
4th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Cass Hole:</b>" I agree. BUT she shouldn't have become a surrogate in the first place then or she should have had it ... [snip!] ... with the surrogacy. Her just going against their wishes and saying the hell with the contract she signed is just wrong. imo. "</blockquote>



Right or wrong, what is the ultimate solution?



Forcing her to have an abortion? How? Tie her down? Shoot her with a tranquilizer dart? Maybe shoot her so the fetus doesn't survive? Sheesh.



Contracts having to do with such things are too murky. No one wins when it goes awry.

Cass Hole 3 kids; Shiloh, IL, United States 7588 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting pilot Jess:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Cass Hole:</b>" I agree. BUT she shouldn't have become a surrogate ... [snip!] ... the fetus doesn't survive? Sheesh. Contracts having to do with such things are too murky. No one wins when it goes awry."


She shouldn't have become a surrogate to begin with. I never said I thought she should be forced to have an abortion. I don't agree with that at all but what she did was wrong. She knew what she was getting into, she knew what she could have been asked to do. She agreed to all of it but then said no once faced with it.

castaway 2 kids; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 19259 posts
4th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Cass Hole:</b>" She shouldn't have become a surrogate to begin with. I never said I thought she should be forced to ... [snip!] ... was getting into, she knew what she could have been asked to do. She agreed to all of it but then said no once faced with it. "</blockquote>




Yeah, but she can't go back.
Maybe she thought that she would feel differently than she actually did when she was faced with a situation. There are a lot of scenarios that can't be accurately predicted until you're there.




Simple example,
I breastfed my first baby but was a sahm. With my second baby, I worked full time and thought, "I'll formula feed. It was hard as it was staying at home. I'm not going to put myself through that. Formula fed babies are just fine"




Guess who has worked their ass off hell or high water to make sure their second baby has had only breast milk through multiple over night work trips? Yep.




Humanity is unpredictable. "Should" is an easy word in theory. Not in practice.

Cass Hole 3 kids; Shiloh, IL, United States 7588 posts
4th Mar '13
Quoting pilot Jess:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Cass Hole:</b>" She shouldn't have become a surrogate to begin ... [snip!] ... multiple over night work trips? Yep. Humanity is unpredictable. "Should" is an easy word in theory. Not in practice."


I know she can't go back and I know there is a lot more that comes into play with this particular situation I'm sure but she agreed to these things before anything was signed. I get where you are coming from but I don't agree with her choice. I am in the process of becoming a surrogate and possible termination is something that is discussed and thought of in depth before agreeing to anything. I understand that emotions and feelings change but that should have been taken into consideration. If I had any moment of hesitation regarding any of these situations I wouldn't have gone through with it at all.




Surrogacy is a very special thing to be a part of and every aspect of it should be seriously taken into account. To me (and this may not be the case) It seems this girl mostly thought about the financial gain and not the hardships of becoming a carrier or the tough choices she could have been faced with.

castaway 2 kids; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 19259 posts
4th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Cass Hole:</b>" I know she can't go back and I know there is a lot more that comes into play with this particular situation ... [snip!] ... about the financial gain and not the hardships of becoming a carrier or the tough choices she could have been faced with. "</blockquote>




I understand your passion given your situation, but I don't think it's fair to judge her motivations. Any combination is possible. And who knows what you would, or any of us, ultimately decide given the situation.

The Master 2 kids; Perth, Australia 19989 posts
5th Mar '13

She broke a contract, I hope she has to pay back every cent with interest. Thats what I have to do when I break a contract.

Household 6 2 kids; Columbus, Georgia 17761 posts
5th Mar '13

I'm just in shock by this. It might have been her body, but it WAS NOT HER BABY. She signed a contract saying she'd abort in a situation like this, and then changed her mind and gave up a baby that she had zero rights to? How in the fuck is that even possible? She was an oven. I can't believe any laws would allow her to give up a baby that wasn't hers in the first place. That's insane to me. If the surrogate's eggs were the ones being used and it was a case of artificial insemination with the end result being she'd give up the baby to the bio dad and his wife, I could ALMOST understand it, but it wasn't. It's like someone giving me the ingredients for me to make a cake, paying me to make it for them, and then me being like "Ehhhh, I don't like the party you're having for the cake to be eaten, so I'm just going to give it to someone else because I approve of what they'll do with it." Only, ya know, with a baby and not baked goods.

_______Nope_________ 23772 posts
5th Mar '13

There seems to be this idea that people assume someone will KNOW how they feel before they are faced with a situation. I could say all day long that I would abort if my baby had defects, but until I am faced with that situation I really don't know. She may have very well thought she could do it. She may have assumed she could do it, no problem. However, when faced with the situation, she found she couldn't.



She isn't an "oven." She didn't lease her body. She agreed to do something for others, but she didn't sign away the rights to her body.



Should she have signed that contract? Obviously not. Should women get pregnant when they don't want a baby? No. But it happens. People change their minds. This is the risk with surrogacy. I can say all day long that I will NOT have an epidural during delivery, but that doesn't sign away my rights to do with my body as I want when presented with that circumstance.

user banned 1 child; Boston, Massachusetts 30985 posts
5th Mar '13

Baby S = seraphina in case you wondered. Weird name.



I feel so bad for the real parents. This child never should have been born