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Bangtail 50 kids; Katy, Texas 7752 posts
7th Mar '13
Quoting Pusherman:" I understand what you're trying to say, and I get that. Of course I lock my doors and I avoid dark ... [snip!] ... sexual assault or rape for themselves, and them being told to not dress like sluts isn't something that a woman needs to hear. "


You have to remember, though, that this cop was talking to college girls who are notorious for getting drunk and making out with each other and wearing next to nothing and h*****g poles at dance clubs. I think what he was getting at was that these actions attract attention from guys who are already out there with bad intentions. A guy is most definitely going to look at the girl who is drunk dancing on a bar half-naked as an easier lay then the girl in jeans and a sweater holding her liquor.



He's not saying that rape is ever ok, but that there are certain things you can do to stay off of a rapist's radar. I look back at some of the things I did, and I'm literally amazed at how stupid I was.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
7th Mar '13
Quoting xTJ:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" You just pull stuff right outta your ... [snip!] ... and here is an important FYI if a person has been raped they don't "play victim" they ARE a victim you utter f**king moron!"


You obviously struggle with basic comprehension skills. I'm gonna try one more time and then I'll just chalk it up to complete stupidity and willful ignorance.



There is such a thing as "risky behaviors". These behaviors are more likely to lead to unwanted consequences, as proven in studies. Google it.



There is a clear difference between being a victim and having a victim mentality. Being a victim, by definition, means that you were victimized by someone or something. Someone did you harm in some way. Having a victim mentality is what you have. Basically, you are claiming that women should not take any precautions in the keeping of their own safety. You have yet to even address this point. All you keep saying is that I'm a "rape apologist" for even suggesting that women should at least take precautions and not engage in risky behaviors. I have given example after example of the way most people, on a daily basis, take precautions to try and ensure their own safety. Admit it, you just enjoy being a big ole hag. It's cool. You're harmless, albeit annoying.



Your comprehension skills are that of a 5 year old. I'm laughing at you. A lot. Now, since you cannot debate like a grown up, you will be ignored. Enough time wasted with you. You are a TERRIBLE debater when you cannot even make your own point, much less prove anyone else's point is flawed. Respond if you must, but you've been shoo'ed like an annoying gnat. 8)

KissMeFinnNelson<3 1 child; 2 angel babies; Glasgow, Scotland, UK, United Kingdom 5388 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" You obviously struggle with basic comprehension skills. I'm gonna try one more time and then I'll just ... [snip!] ... point, much less prove anyone else's point is flawed. Respond if you must, but you've been shoo'ed like an annoying gnat. 8)"</blockquote>




Sorry, are you that f**king dumb that you still don't understand I know absolutely every single thing you are saying? Yes, yes that's right you are. You fail so miserably to comprehend yourself that I am fully aware of what risky behaviours are and I am fully aware not to engage in them however the massive difference is I understand all of this and I still blame the rapist for the rape whereas you think you understand but really see it as "and that's why it's the victims fault". You still clear as day automatically jump to blame the victim. Oh you laugh all you want at me, I'm certainly not laughing at you because I don't find anything funny at all about someone so obviously sick and twisted in the f**king head.

user banned Due November 26; 1 child; Parkersburg, West Virginia 9548 posts
7th Mar '13
Quoting xTJ:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" You obviously struggle with basic comprehension ... [snip!] ... not laughing at you because I don't find anything funny at all about someone so obviously sick and twisted in the f**king head."

no one is blaming the victim we are just saying that there are sick f**ks in the world why tempt fate?

KissMeFinnNelson<3 1 child; 2 angel babies; Glasgow, Scotland, UK, United Kingdom 5388 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting I love Kenzi:</b>" no one is blaming the victim we are just saying that there are sick f**ks in the world why tempt fate?"</blockquote>



Oh I agree there are sick f**ks in the world but they will be sick f**ks regardless. You do not have to "tempt" someone who is out to rape. A rapist will attack no matter what a girl is wearing, how she is behaving, etc. A man who has no intention of raping a girl won't suddenly be tempted to rape someone just because of how they are behaving. The only reason a woman is raped is because of the rapists choice to rape her, it has absolutely nothing to do with her and she should not have to feel like it is her fault. If you take all the precautions in the world the rapist will just find someone else to rape, if it is not you it will be someone else because it is not the womans fault, it is the man's, it is his decision and it is his behaviour that caused it not the woman.

user banned Due November 26; 1 child; Parkersburg, West Virginia 9548 posts
7th Mar '13
Quoting xTJ:" <blockquote><b>Quoting I love Kenzi:</b>" no one is blaming the victim we are just ... [snip!] ... because it is not the womans fault, it is the man's, it is his decision and it is his behaviour that caused it not the woman."



what if they are both drunk? the man may do shit he wouldnt normally do bc his judgment is impaired. and women can rape men as well

KissMeFinnNelson<3 1 child; 2 angel babies; Glasgow, Scotland, UK, United Kingdom 5388 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting I love Kenzi:</b>" what if they are both drunk? the man may do shit he wouldnt normally do bc his judgment is impaired. and women can rape men as well"</blockquote>




I can't say I've really ever heard of a man with a perfectly normal mindset when it comes to not raping women suddenly turn into a predatory rapist, I mean I've been drunk around attractive men and never suddenly got the urge to rape someone because my judgement was impaired. Uh huh that is correct a woman can be the attacker and a man the victim, where you going to expand on that particular statement? I'm confused as to what you were trying to get across because it seems like you stopped mid sentance, like before you stated your point? :?

Drunk Blair Waldorf 2 kids; Alpharetta, Georgia 19208 posts
7th Mar '13
Quoting xTJ:" <blockquote><b>Quoting I love Kenzi:</b>" what if they are both drunk? the man may ... [snip!] ... as to what you were trying to get across because it seems like you stopped mid sentance, like before you stated your point? :?"


Men, drunk and sober, misread "signals" that women put out all the time, whether those women intend to or not. Those signals are amplified by how they dress and how they act. We are talking about two completely different types of "rapists."



The type you're talking about are serial rapists and you're right. Absolutely nothing you do will stop them from breaking into someone's home and raping them or pulling someone off the street and raping them.



The type that was being addressed in the seminar and the video, which is what we're supposed to be debating here, are the types that college girls most commonly encounter. And those are the date rapers. The guys who misread signals put out by women and when they're rejected, they get mad and force themselves on women. Or when the woman passes out drunk, they use that to their advantage. Or a whole number of various other situations that crop up. And in MOST, mind you not all, but MOST of those cases, taking precautions such as dressing a bit more modestly and not allowing yourself to get sloppy drunk and sticking in groups will help you successfully avoid being raped. Nobody deserves to be raped, but just as you don't set your most expensive jewelry out on your front porch at night, you'll more successfully protect yourself against being raped if you're aware of your surroundings and take precautions to protect yourself.



Nobody is blaming the victim. And we know that sometimes it can't be helped. But it would drastically reduce the amount of misread signals if women took more care to make their intentions clear from the beginning.

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

I think he's absolutely right. It's sad... but he is.



Do I believe women asked to be raped because they dress provocatively? No f**king way and I hate that a woman can be blamed for it AFTER the occurence... but the fact is, this shit happens and there is shit we can do to take precaution and hopefully prevent that situation from happening to us.



&I do also believe that women do dress a particular way for men, they enjoy the power it gives them etc... again, that's not an open invitation for forced sex but you've got to be thinking about the sleezebags around you and make smart choices to keep yourself protected.



I really loved the analogy about people don't deserve to be hit by drunk drivers and other bad shit, but like he said laws only apply to those who follow them.

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting I love Kenzi:</b>" in a perfect world women could wear and do what they wanted but we dont live in a perfect world"</blockquote>




:!:

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Pusherman:</b>" I don't really like a lot of what he was saying. There were a lot of apple and oranges comparisons that ... [snip!] ... an opinion of, and her body is something that only she has a right to permit others entry to and that's all there is to it."</blockquote>




I didn't interpret anything he said to mean that men can't be held accountable for their animal urges or raping ways...

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Pusherman:</b>" I understand what you're trying to say, and I get that. Of course I lock my doors and I avoid dark ... [snip!] ... sexual assault or rape for themselves, and them being told to not dress like sluts isn't something that a woman needs to hear. "</blockquote>




On the subject of the seminar, I'm not 100% sure on the truth of the word "slut" being thrown around but if it was, then yes, that's absolutely disgusting & distasteful... and obviously women are going to take offense to something like that... but the message of protecting yourself and taking precautions is still important.

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Pusherman:</b>" In my opinion, you shouldn't ever think about had I done this or that, that wouldn't have happened. ... [snip!] ... that happened to you, but people shouldn't have to alter their behavior to accommodate people who are out to harm others. "</blockquote>




Of course they shouldn't HAVE to, but it would be smart to... Why be too proud to keep yourself safe? Your principals aren't going to help when people who have no morals are out to harm others.



Hypothetically speaking, are you going to take your child around a pedophile because you shouldn't have to care that HE'S the one who's a kiddy fiddler? Very doubtful.

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting xTJ:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" Agree. I had a debate about almost ... [snip!] ... if they dare to even leave the house they are putting themselves at risk of rape and should take responsibility for it :roll:"</blockquote>




Where in the f**k did that happen????



That's disgusting that someone would do that to anyone, let alone a child.

Ryloonjimama Australia 18851 posts
7th Mar '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" I am not saying that you didn't do anything to protect yourself. You were not engaging in any risky ... [snip!] ... risk that something bad will happen to you. If you didn't engage in any risky behavior, then this doesn't even apply to you."</blockquote>




:!:



There's always an exception to every rule, so to speak.



In some cases, you can look back and think what if I did this differently which could help someone else understand that they should be more aware of their surroundings... Others, there was nothing you could do to prevent it or see it coming.



Of course neither case is ever justified and neither victim should ever be blamed.