Cast Your Vote:
- fire her -- Votes: 11
- reprimand her in another way -- Votes: 16
- not that big of a deal -- Votes: 37
Quoting ღFrodoliciousღ:" She didn't say they should. She DID say that teachers should have more power to discipline kids so that ... [snip!] ... That's like saying "If the girl at the party had worn a t-shirt and sweatpants to the party, she wouldn't have been raped". "
Apparantly schools should also be working on more of an understanding of reading :wink:
Quoting Tarynosaurus Rex:" But she is saying that they should have the power to threaten kids. The majority of parents aren't the ... [snip!] ... parents who think their kids' shit don't stink...but there are MORE parents who actually care and discipline their children."
No, actually I never said that.
If you read, what I said was that when they DID have that power to threaten with the strap kids behaved just based on the idea that it could happen. Now, the schools, have no power to do anything, physical or otherwise, without some parent bitching about and having a new policy enforced to stop it from happening.
Quoting Tarynosaurus Rex:" Idk what schools y'all are referring to, but in my school teachers could most definitely have kids arrested. We had SROs on duty at all times (and we were in a small town with very little crime.)"
Here, the RCMP very rarely get involved with the schools. Most RCMP don't come storming into the schools to arrest kids, they will refer them to the officer that works with the school and usually it's a sit down and mediate type of thing.
Problem is, for those kids that have no respect and don't behave to begin with, this rarely helps. And Canada isn't a big fan of arresting underage kids or punishing them as harshly as I think they should either.
Quoting ღFrodoliciousღ:" Unless the child is actually physically harming the others, as in has already hurt another child to ... [snip!] ... the school has permission to call the police to have a child physically removed from class if a situation gets out of hand. "
Same sort of thing here too.
A child I know was very physically aggressive with students and staff. When he would start getting into a rage they would move his whole class (except him) to another room and talk to him through the door because they were not allowed to touch him. The police were called on one occasion, but because he wasn't acting aggressive to them they could not remove him by force.
Quoting Amelia Margaret:" That school/district is choosing not to utilize other methods of behavior management that have not been deemed as harmful to children. They are not powerless."
Okay, well I have a meeting with the school division next week to set up some special needs education requirements. I'm open to suggestions I can give them on behavior management and ways to discipline that are not harmful.
In particular, for the child I mentioned that hit the teacher. Keep in mind, the parents are in NO WAY willing to admit their child is at fault or out of control, so this has to be something that the school can do. As is, he has to spend parts of each day in a separate room because him and another boy have daily fist fights IN class. (The other boys mother blames the first boy and his mother, so it's just a circle that's going no where)
Please, idea's would be very welcome :)
<blockquote><b>Quoting Emily Dickinson:</b>" Shoot, I want that app. :) Kidding. But as a third grade teacher, things like this are really hard to ... [snip!] ... this year. :( I made the kids dump every one of their desks and bring me their bookbags to search until I found the thief."</blockquote>
That's crappy :( I could see our local school district being like "oh you can't search their backpack". Our school is getting so out of hand. Our principal is a joke because te name says it all, he just wants to be their pal and not authoritative at all. He's waaaay to permissive. He lets the kids walk all over the teachers.
Quoting Emily Dickinson:" Shoot, I want that app. :) Kidding. But as a third grade teacher, things like this are really hard to ... [snip!] ... this year. :( I made the kids dump every one of their desks and bring me their bookbags to search until I found the thief."
See, I think this is totally a fine thing to do BUT there are going to be those parents that say that it goes against the kids right to privacy to go through EVERYONE'S stuff to find the one that stole.
That's the problem. You get these kids that go home and complain about it, the school division comes under fire, it gets blown up and you have to stop doing something that works because someone's pissy about it. Or, it ends up in the media and a bunch of woman on BG discuss it lol
Quoting Mommy of a giggler!:" Okay, well I have a meeting with the school division next week to set up some special needs education ... [snip!] ... blames the first boy and his mother, so it's just a circle that's going no where) Please, idea's would be very welcome :)"
I don't know what the policies are in Canadian schools but first and foremost there must be a way to remove a disruptive child from the classroom. By allowing that child to stay, he is interfering with the learning of the other students. Parents ought to up in arms about that, not with the idea of forcing a child out of the room.
As for the teacher's part, I believe strongly in public rules, private discipline. I used a green, yellow, red system to warn students for poor behavior. On a bulletin board each child had a card with a unique sticker for identification. That way the student knew which card belonged to him but if someone else came into the classroom they would not be able to tell who was misbehaving and had their card on red.
Once the card went to red the student was given a consequence. This was another very important part of the behavior system. Instead of having set consequences for broken rules, I had (posted in the classroom) a consequence "menu." This gave me the flexibility to choose the consequence most effective for the child and behavior, and I wasn't locked into giving a consequence that would be too harsh or not harsh enough or just simply not effective for that child. Another great part of the system was that the cards could move backwards. If a kid messed up in the morning and got to red, he still had the rest of the day to try and earn a step back to yellow and possibly avoid having a consequence.
For a student that is a frequent behavior problem, the most effective way of managing his behavior is to have frequent communication with the parents, and agree on expectations, rewards and consequences. I've found that the best way to do this is to have a folder with a behavior chart on which very explicit expectations are listed for that child. At the end of the day I give a "score" relating to those expectations and the child takes the folder home to the parent, who is expecting said folder, to be signed. At the end of the week (or day, or month, fortnight, whatever the parent decides is best for the child) a reward is given by the parent based on the number of points the child has earned. This practice has been a lifesaver for some very troublesome students, as it works really, really well. It requires full support from the parents however and that's not always available.
Building rapport with poorly behaved students is also very effective. I was always given a heads up by other teachers when I was to get a serious behavior problem student. For example, one year I had Frank. He was to spend his second year of fifth grade with me. That year before school started I made a super cute bulletin board with handmade 3D paper race cars with the students' names on them. Frank almost immediately began attempts to deface the board but instead of punishing him I made him in charge of that bulletin board for the rest of the year. At the end of that month I was able to give each child their race car to take home in almost perfect condition. Frank and I were a team after that and it didn't take long to realize that many of his behavior issues had been related to undiagnosed AD/HD, which then in turn frustrated his teachers and caused Frank to become resentful toward authority. Building rapport with students who come to the classroom lacking respect for authority is so important.
Positive reinforcement is a lot more effective than people tend to believe. It's more difficult to be consistent with it because good students aren't the ones demanding attention. For a class that is mostly off task and not listening, it takes just selecting a few students who are doing something right and praising them. You'd be amazed how fast other students will get on task just by hearing another student being praised for it. There is no need to create resentment by yelling at the class or punishing them. Children mostly want to be good and it's not hard to steer them in that direction, even those from the most troublesome backgrounds.
Other effective ways of positive reinforcement I've used are whole class and individual rewards for good behavior. I'd make a paper chain for the class and add a link to it when they were being good. Or sometimes I'd add a link for just one child who was being good. Imagine how powerful it was for that child to be recognized for contributing to a pizza party or extra recess for everyone.
I also used a classroom money system to "pay" kids for individual good behavior. Every month I'd auction off prizes and they used the "money" to bid on them. Positive reinforcement strategies take less effort imo than negative, but teachers must be proactive.
These are just some things I've used in my classroom that have been very effective for 4th/5th graders, although much of it is appropriate for any grade and if not can be adapted to be appropriate. There are lots more techniques out there. Teachers need to be proactive, consistent, and creative and recognize their students as individuals with individual needs. Administrators need to be able to offer support when a student's behavior is out of control. And parents of course, need to do their part to support good behavior for their child in school.
ETA tl;dr sorry :oops:
<blockquote><b>Quoting Amelia Margaret:</b>" I don't know what the policies are in Canadian schools but first and foremost there must be a way to ... [snip!] ... And parents of course, need to do their part to support good behavior for their child in school. ETA tl;dr sorry :oops:"</blockquote>
Vws!!!! Those are great ideas. You seem to have solved the problem I have with the stop lights. I don't use them but they are my biggest pet peeve because most teachers do not use them the way you do. I hate seeing a kids name on red. It's like public humiliation which I am not an advocate of whatsoever. I love your motto for punishment, " public rules, private discipline". Also I agree with positive reinforcement. My favorite saying is "catch kids being good". It is a lot less stressful on me too to focus on kids being good instead of always harping on the poor behavior like some do. I try not to bring too much attention to poor behavior and make an example of good behavior.
Quoting lolajessup:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Amelia Margaret:</b>" I don't know what the policies are in ... [snip!] ... on the poor behavior like some do. I try not to bring too much attention to poor behavior and make an example of good behavior."
I first witnessed the praising technique when student teaching for first grade. I thought it was really neat but not something that could be effective for fifth graders so I didn't bother with it when I did the next semester's student teaching in fifth grade. My first real teaching job was also fifth grade but in a very rough school and that first class especially was a big wake up call. I ended up trying the praise technique out of desperation and was astonished to find it was just as effective as for the first graders. I made so many mistakes that year, haha but learned a whole lot, more than in college even.
I wish I could remember the name of the man who spoke at our inservice about public rules, private discipline. He influenced quite a bit of my classroom and behavior management strategies actually. He was really good.
<blockquote><b>Quoting Amelia Margaret:</b>" I first witnessed the praising technique when student teaching for first grade. I thought it was really ... [snip!] ... private discipline. He influenced quite a bit of my classroom and behavior management strategies actually. He was really good."</blockquote>
That's awesome. It's amazing how the same things work for most ages just sometimes adapted. A lot of the things I use with my preschoolers my mom uses with her 6th graders. Kids are kids. You just have to adapt things for the age level. But the same things can be used across the board. It just depends on the kid and the group too. You really have to go into each yr as a new teacher because just when you get comfortable you're gonna get a whole new set of kids with diff needs and issues.
Quoting lolajessup:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Amelia Margaret:</b>" I first witnessed the praising technique ... [snip!] ... yr as a new teacher because just when you get comfortable you're gonna get a whole new set of kids with diff needs and issues."
Yep. I always get homesick for my previous class, haha. I hate having to go over procedures and rules all over again. But yes I agree, every class is a new dynamic and teachers have to be flexible and willing to adapt.
Quoting Amelia Margaret:" I don't know what the policies are in Canadian schools but first and foremost there must be a way to ... [snip!] ... And parents of course, need to do their part to support good behavior for their child in school. ETA tl;dr sorry :oops:"
Those are fantastic ideas and I will be sure to bring them with me to the meeting :)
They do a lot of positive reinforcement, the issue is that with the bad kids, the parents aren't involved and they are bound by so many rules. The big thing being that if the child will not leave the room on their own will, they can not MAKE them leave the room so the other kids have too.
Quoting Mommy of a giggler!:" Those are fantastic ideas and I will be sure to bring them with me to the meeting :) They do a lot ... [snip!] ... that if the child will not leave the room on their own will, they can not MAKE them leave the room so the other kids have too."
I had to ask another teacher but I got the name of the professional who I learned so much from. He's Terry Alderman and he actually specializes in behavior management for at risk students.
<blockquote><b>Quoting Amelia Margaret:</b>" I had to ask another teacher but I got the name of the professional who I learned so much from. He's Terry Alderman and he actually specializes in behavior management for at risk students."</blockquote>
*runs off to google*